Absurdity with tape delay

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I watched a bit of Obama's press conference on C-SPAN; this may be
his last one.
I had to walk into another room, so I turned on the radio, tuning in
my local public radio station, also airing the press conference. Because
I hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio
was quite noticeable.
Wow. Congressional censorship of broadcasting (via FCC enforcement) is
so onerous that not even remarks uttered by the President of the United
States can be broadcast live.

clickety click... where's that Troll-o-meter when I need it?

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
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alvey

2016-12-16 22:13:09 UTC

clickety click... where's that Troll-o-meter when I need it?

And can it be hooked up to the Dull-o-Meter?

alvey

Michael Black

2016-12-16 22:35:31 UTC

clickety click... where's that Troll-o-meter when I need it?

I don't think he's paranoid, I think he's making a joke.

Surely it's just easier to keep the delay inline at all times, nobody
would notice except for a caller who leaves their radio's volume up, and
anyone who just happens to also be listening to tv.

Michael

Barry Margolin

2016-12-18 03:03:06 UTC

clickety click... where's that Troll-o-meter when I need it?

It might just be an equipment issue. I had the radio in one room set to
WBUR, and another room was on WGBH. They were about a half second apart.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-18 04:41:47 UTC

Post by Barry Margolin
It might just be an equipment issue. I had the radio in one room set to
WBUR, and another room was on WGBH. They were about a half second apart.

I was watching a national speech and flipped TV channels. To my surprise,
they were NOT in sync by a few seconds. Don't know why, but there's a lot
of equipment and channel between an event and our home TV, plenty of places
for a bit of delay to get intorduced.

David Lesher

2016-12-19 02:19:34 UTC

Post by Barry Margolin
It might just be an equipment issue. I had the radio in one room set to
WBUR, and another room was on WGBH. They were about a half second apart.

A-D & D-A conversion take time; television production now must now account
and deal with them....

--
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& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

super70s

2016-12-16 22:42:16 UTC

I doubt the radio had any kind of intentional tape delay of the
president's speech.

I've noticed a very slight delay between the cable TV in my living room
and the cable TV in my bedroom (same channel). Expecting a TV and a
radio broadcast to be in sync is kind of asking for miracles.

David Johnston

2016-12-16 23:05:41 UTC

There could be a difference of seconds between two different outlets
just based on which satellites the transmission was being relayed through.

t***@gmail.com

2016-12-16 23:31:24 UTC

That's not a delay. This is a delay...

https://vimeo.com/124716446

Eight years after Obama's inaugural press conference, the MSM still has not addressed the question raised by White House reporter Helen Thomas.

TAGS: Accurate, reports, from, American, embassy, in, Jerusalem, under, Trump, admin, will, have, a, longer, delay, Happy, Hanukkah, American, putz

Verman Control

2016-12-17 12:53:51 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

Gawd would you stick to shit you know something about Verman!

Trollery, asshatery, fuckery, etc...

There are a couple of factors as to why this is delayed.

Start with link from the WH to CPSAN HQ, then the uplink to CSPAN's
transponders, then add in the delay from your local MSO if crapble
receiving it, then they may transport it around on microwave or fiber to
their various headends, (there aren't just ONE BIG ONE any more!), then
add in another uplink/downlink, uplink/downlink if you are on DBS...

All these delays may only be a fraction to a second but they start to add
up.

Then there is also likely about 3-5 second audio delay for "profanity"
checking.... on the radio side. so it really should just sound one long
1Khz tone the whole time that idiot ape speaks...There is also likely a
few delays in that audio getting from CSPAN to NPR to the local
PliBrainwashingService relay....

Various conversions of A/D/A/D/A as well.. especially if you happen to be
listening via one of those Ubiquity stations... but maybe the
PliBrainwashingService refuse to pay for that stuff...

But as always YOU, VERMAN HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE!

--
I MADE America Great Again! President Trump! I put a stake in that bitch
for good!

trotsky

2016-12-17 14:44:44 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"
Gawd would you stick to shit you know something about Verman!
Trollery, asshatery, fuckery, etc...

"Verman Control" is an excellent screen name.

Michael Black

2016-12-17 15:44:51 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase "tape
delay", we know what he meant.

Michael

anim8rfsk

2016-12-17 21:17:34 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase "tape
delay", we know what he meant.
Michael

Like dialing a phone.

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h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-17 21:21:06 UTC

Post by anim8rfsk
Like dialing a phone.

I still literally dial a rotary phone. However, it remains to be
seen how long the phone company will continue to support pulse-dial.
Supposedly cable and FIOS (voice over internet) do not support
pulse dial. Many business systems do not.

FWIW, I also use a VCR and like it.

RichA

2016-12-18 01:40:12 UTC

Post by anim8rfsk
Like dialing a phone.

It could be the last mechanical video recording/playback mechanism we ever see in action.
IMO, DVD and Blu-ray won't last as long as tapes. This is also agreeing with the American intelligence community who still store things on tapes.

Verminator

2016-12-18 12:16:45 UTC

I still literally dial a rotary phone. However, it remains to be seen
how long the phone company will continue to support pulse-dial.

Once an actual analog POTS copper circuit is gone, and its a PURE IP type
connection then pulse will die off... although the ATA like devices that
would be at the other end of this probably could be made to do a
conversion, its added hardware and code to do it and maintain...

ISDN would have done this decades ago, if it had been pushed harder, as
it uses a digital D channel to signal back to the switch dialing, ICLID,
progress etc... and could even be used for X.25 data.

Think about where the US internet of 2016 could be if in the 70's
everyone had 128K data!

Supposedly cable and FIOS (voice over internet) do not support pulse
dial. Many business systems do not.

As most of these PBX's are digital in nature in that you can NOT simply
plug a POTS phone into them! Thats why you need adapters or special
cordless phones, etc.. They may have differing line voltages, polarity
and other signals that would damage a POTS phone and vice versa.

FWIW, I also use a VCR and like it.

Nothing wrong with it, if you don't care about the quality and you can
still get medium.. which there is not too many places even making medium
anymore...

--
I MADE America Great Again! President Trump! I put a stake in that bitch
for good!

super70s

2016-12-18 16:17:58 UTC

Post by Verminator

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
FWIW, I also use a VCR and like it.

Nothing wrong with it, if you don't care about the quality and you can
still get medium.. which there is not too many places even making
medium anymore...

I've bought some great titles at area Goodwills for $1 each.... The
Insider, Quiz Show, The Deer Hunter, Meet Joe Black (1999), The English
Patient, Erin Brockovich, The Patriot, Far and Away, Enemy at the Gates,
Apocalypse Now...

Sometimes the video quality can be very good.

I don't own anything newer than 2003 so that must be about the time the
format petered out (coincidentally, that's the same year I got into
DVD's).

Verminator

2016-12-19 01:25:03 UTC

Post by super70s
I've bought some great titles at area Goodwills for $1 each.... The

Oh.. pre-recorded stuff is not bad, its all in SP mode, with good sources.

Post by super70s
The English
Patient,

Does that even fit on a single VHS tape??? I have to admit I was (and
still am an infatuated sucker for Kristen Scott Thomas... BAM!)

Post by super70s
Sometimes the video quality can be very good.

In *SP* mode for pre-recorded stuff its ~ 480i or so... maybe a little
closer to 376i due to some recording overhead... SVHS stuff can be close
to the PAL 576i resolution..at SP speeds of course...

Once you leave the SP mode, the quality goes down quite a bit even for
SVHS.

Post by super70s
I don't own anything newer than 2003 so that must be about the time the
format petered out (coincidentally, that's the same year I got into
DVD's).

I think there was some post about Funai or some one putting the VHS deck
into its coffin and last rights... as for BLANK medium.... I've not seen
them any place prominently... but I will admit I am not looking , and
very very very rarely venture to that section of stores... The deep $5 DVD
bins are at front of skankmart, and the rest can be ordered via
Target.com, 5% discount, and FREE SHIP! SUCKERS! I eat them alive on that
for cheapo discs! BAWAHAHHAAHAHA!

--
I MADE America Great Again! President Trump! I put a stake in that bitch
for good!

Nadegda

2016-12-19 01:31:49 UTC

Post by Verminator

Post by super70s
I've bought some great titles at area Goodwills for $1 each.... The

Oh.. pre-recorded stuff is not bad, its all in SP mode, with good sources.

Post by super70s
The English
Patient,

Does that even fit on a single VHS tape??? I have to admit I was (and
still am an infatuated sucker for Kristen Scott Thomas... BAM!)

Post by super70s
Sometimes the video quality can be very good.

In *SP* mode for pre-recorded stuff its ~ 480i or so... maybe a little
closer to 376i due to some recording overhead... SVHS stuff can be close
to the PAL 576i resolution..at SP speeds of course...
Once you leave the SP mode, the quality goes down quite a bit even for
SVHS.

Post by super70s
I don't own anything newer than 2003 so that must be about the time the
format petered out (coincidentally, that's the same year I got into
DVD's).

I think there was some post about Funai or some one putting the VHS deck
into its coffin and last rights... as for BLANK medium.... I've not seen
them any place prominently... but I will admit I am not looking , and
very very very rarely venture to that section of stores... The deep $5
DVD bins are at front of skankmart, and the rest can be ordered via
Target.com, 5% discount, and FREE SHIP! SUCKERS! I eat them alive on
that for cheapo discs! BAWAHAHHAAHAHA!

You're being ripped off. The same film can be had in 1080p with surround
sound from BitTorrent for $0, if you have unmetered broadband. If there's
an X265 encoded BRRIP it might have excellent quality without noticeable
compression cubism at any point and weigh in at only 2GB. And multi-TB
external hard drives are getting very inexpensive. If you get a 3TB drive
for $100 that's enough storage for 1500 movies and a marginal price of 6
cents a pop.

Note that that's about 1/500 what the Blu-Ray would cost at retail and
still 1/75 of what you're paying for crappy cropped 480i content.

--
Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Nadegda

Fakey couldn't teach a monkey to eat a banana, much less answer a direct
question posed to him. -- Fakey's Dogwhistle Holder

David Lesher

2016-12-19 02:28:18 UTC

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Supposedly cable and FIOS (voice over internet) do not support
pulse dial. Many business systems do not.

FIOS is not using VOIP. And the ONT's do accept dial pulse..

Adam H. Kerman

2016-12-18 01:20:50 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase "tape
delay", we know what he meant.

Like dialing a phone.

Hell, cell phones are mobile devices, not telephones at all. Still,
mine has a rotary dial.

Michael Black

2016-12-18 04:33:21 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase "tape
delay", we know what he meant.

Like dialing a phone.

Hell, cell phones are mobile devices, not telephones at all. Still,
mine has a rotary dial.

In the days of mobile phones, as in Banacek, I seem to recall they had
rotary dials. Which is interesting since it would be easier to detect the
TouchTones rather than a series of beeps.

Michael

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-18 04:49:39 UTC

Post by Michael Black
In the days of mobile phones, as in Banacek, I seem to recall they had
rotary dials. Which is interesting since it would be easier to detect the
TouchTones rather than a series of beeps.

Mobile phones were introduced in 1948, and were so big they had to go into
either an automobile or a train.

Originally they were manual with operators connecting the call, and I think
the user selecting an open channel.

The crack trains of the era, such as the Broadway Limited, 20th Century
Limited, and the Capitol Limited had them.

The 1969 Metroliners had an automated version, with automatic handoff.
This was a prototype of the later cellular concept which required lots of
automatic handoffs.

In the 1960s, they introduced dial mobile phones. Those phones worked
just like a landline phone--dial tone and dial the number, not "send"
and "end".

In all cases there was a far, far higher demand service than there were
channels to support it. The inventional of cellular by Bell allowed far
more capacity, and that came out in the mid 1980s. Originally, units were
still big that they had to go in cars, but soon units got smaller.

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-18 04:51:39 UTC

Didn't Mannix have a car phone?

I remember the rich kids on 90210 had an early cell phone in their car.
The handset was corded.

Michael Black

2016-12-18 16:14:11 UTC

Didn't Mannix have a car phone?

Banacek was the one that came to mind immediately. But yes, others on tv
had them, probably the main place where most of us would see mobile
phones. Too expensive for the masses.

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
I remember the rich kids on 90210 had an early cell phone in their car.
The handset was corded.

There was time in the nineties when I'd find old clunky cellphones at
garage sales for a few dollars. They weren't as big as the two way radios
used for pre-cell mobile phones, but they were still relatively big, and
in multiple sections. So the main unit was in the trunk or some other out
of the way place, and there was a control head on the dashboard somewhere,
and then the handset. It was interesting since virtually of the parts
inside were identifiable, and could be reused for other things. And then
as they got smaller and cheaper, the insides got less and less
recognizable, and virtually no parts could be used for anything else.

Michael

danny burstein

2016-12-18 17:38:51 UTC

Didn't Mannix have a car phone?

Banacek was the one that came to mind immediately. But yes, others on tv
had them, probably the main place where most of us would see mobile
phones. Too expensive for the masses.

In the Adventures of Superman (the one and only REAL tv series
from the 1950's, accept no imitations), Perry White, the editor
(or maybe publisher... there was some confusion) had a radio
phone in his car.

None of the reporters nor any of the other characters did.

(The police and an occassional Bad Guy had radios in
their cars, but nothing hooked into the phone network)

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-19 03:34:53 UTC

Post by danny burstein
In the Adventures of Superman (the one and only REAL tv series
from the 1950's, accept no imitations), Perry White, the editor
(or maybe publisher... there was some confusion) had a radio
phone in his car.
None of the reporters nor any of the other characters did.

As I remember the show, Perry White was only seen in his office
yelling at Jimmy not to call him Chief. Did he venture out into
the real world often?

If fading memory serves, I think the actor who played Perry White was
in the Maltese Falcon.

In 1937 Bell ran an ad showing a reporter phoning in a breaking story
using a conveniently available pay phone.

In 1948 Bell ran ads touting its new mobile phones. But it would take
another 40 years before they became widespread; cellular had to be
invented.

danny burstein

2016-12-19 04:32:41 UTC

As I remember the show, Perry White was only seen in his office
yelling at Jimmy not to call him Chief. Did he venture out into
the real world often?

I should shake out my neural cobwebs, but wasn't there
an episode where he actually went out and acted as
a full scale reporter?

There was also the back-in-time sketch with Professor
someone-or-another's time machine.

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
If fading memory serves, I think the actor who played Perry White was
in the Maltese Falcon.

John Hamilton. Had a lot of minor acting slots in the 1940's/early 50's
until, of course, Perry White.

Check out the movie "The Beginning or the End" (1947),
which until the super sappy/jingoistic ending is a pretty good
semi documentary of the making of the A-bomb. Hamilton has a
small part in it.

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

anim8rfsk

2016-12-19 05:45:19 UTC

As I remember the show, Perry White was only seen in his office
yelling at Jimmy not to call him Chief. Did he venture out into
the real world often?

I should shake out my neural cobwebs, but wasn't there
an episode where he actually went out and acted as
a full scale reporter?

Yeah, he wanted to show Lois and Jimmy how it's done.

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/tv/tv.php?topic=reviews/aos-ep045

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David Lesher

2016-12-19 02:25:15 UTC

Didn't Mannix have a car phone?

Banacek was the one that came to mind immediately. But yes, others on tv
had them, probably the main place where most of us would see mobile
phones. Too expensive for the masses.

Jeeze, these kids... Doesn't ANYONE recall Maxwell Smart's shoe
phone????

Micky DuPree

2016-12-28 08:15:12 UTC

Post by Michael Black
In the days of mobile phones, as in Banacek, I seem to recall they
had rotary dials. Which is interesting since it would be easier to
detect the TouchTones rather than a series of beeps.

Didn't Mannix have a car phone?

Banacek was the one that came to mind immediately. But yes, others on
tv had them, probably the main place where most of us would see mobile
phones. Too expensive for the masses.

I think Richard Diamond, PI had a car phone (at least in the Los Angeles
episodes). Tony Fleming definitely had one in _The Rogues_. Amos Burke
may have had one in _Burke's Law_.

-Micky

anim8rfsk

2016-12-28 18:12:33 UTC

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Michael Black
In the days of mobile phones, as in Banacek, I seem to recall they
had rotary dials. Which is interesting since it would be easier to
detect the TouchTones rather than a series of beeps.

Didn't Mannix have a car phone?

Banacek was the one that came to mind immediately. But yes, others on
tv had them, probably the main place where most of us would see mobile
phones. Too expensive for the masses.

I think Richard Diamond, PI had a car phone (at least in the Los Angeles

Wiki agrees:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Diamond,_Private_Detective

Post by Micky DuPree
episodes). Tony Fleming definitely had one in _The Rogues_. Amos Burke
may have had one in _Burke's Law_.

Yep, although you can't prove it from these pictures:

http://www.metv.com/lists/10-things-you-never-knew-about-burkes-law

https://starcarcentral.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/burkes-law-rolls-royce-si
lver-cloud-2/

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A Friend

2016-12-18 16:34:11 UTC

Didn't Mannix have a car phone?

Hell, Perry White had a car phone.

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
I remember the rich kids on 90210 had an early cell phone in their car.
The handset was corded.

anim8rfsk

2016-12-18 18:48:17 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase "tape
delay", we know what he meant.

Like dialing a phone.

Hell, cell phones are mobile devices, not telephones at all. Still,
mine has a rotary dial.

In the days of mobile phones, as in Banacek, I seem to recall they had
rotary dials. Which is interesting since it would be easier to detect the
TouchTones rather than a series of beeps.
Michael

I've seen rotary dials that *make* the touch tones instead of the clicks.

And of course there were the infamous rotary dials that were stationary,
and just had the stupid buttons in a circle.

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Michael Black

2016-12-18 21:35:02 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase "tape
delay", we know what he meant.

Like dialing a phone.

Hell, cell phones are mobile devices, not telephones at all. Still,
mine has a rotary dial.

In the days of mobile phones, as in Banacek, I seem to recall they had
rotary dials. Which is interesting since it would be easier to detect the
TouchTones rather than a series of beeps.
Michael

I've seen rotary dials that *make* the touch tones instead of the clicks.

I seem to recall there were rotary to tone encoder ICs. But my point was
that a rotary dial breaks the circuit, and that doesn't translate so well
to radio, so it probably pulsed a continuous tone, which was easier to
decode at the other end.

Post by anim8rfsk
And of course there were the infamous rotary dials that were stationary,
and just had the stupid buttons in a circle.

I think I remember those. Kind of cute.

Michael

Adam H. Kerman

2016-12-18 21:33:46 UTC

Post by Adam H. Kerman
hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on
radio was quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase
"tape delay", we know what he meant.

Like dialing a phone.

Hell, cell phones are mobile devices, not telephones at all. Still,
mine has a rotary dial.

In the days of mobile phones, as in Banacek, I seem to recall they had
rotary dials. Which is interesting since it would be easier to detect the
TouchTones rather than a series of beeps.

I've seen rotary dials that *make* the touch tones instead of the clicks.

I see what you're saying. If your device isn't signalling a telephone
switch, then pulse dialing makes no sense. I wonder what Banacek
was supposed to be using.

Cannon had a mobile phone but he always went through an operator.

Post by anim8rfsk
And of course there were the infamous rotary dials that were stationary,
and just had the stupid buttons in a circle.

I think I remember those. Kind of cute.

In some European countries, the numbers in the dial were in a
different order.

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-19 03:46:14 UTC

Post by Michael Black
I seem to recall there were rotary to tone encoder ICs. But my point was
that a rotary dial breaks the circuit, and that doesn't translate so well
to radio, so it probably pulsed a continuous tone, which was easier to
decode at the other end.

I see what you're saying. If your device isn't signalling a telephone
switch, then pulse dialing makes no sense. I wonder what Banacek
was supposed to be using.

All true, but the 1960s mobile phones did have rotary dials and worked
like a regular telephone; the box handled all the signalling.

The 1969 Metroliner train phones had Touch Tone.

I don't know if the following is available on-line:
Douglas, V. A. "The MJ Mobile Radio Telephone System." Bell Laboratories
Record 42, December 1964, p. 382.

Networks in Denial

2016-12-19 01:54:25 UTC

Post by Michael Black
I seem to recall there were rotary to tone encoder ICs. But my point
was that a rotary dial breaks the circuit, and that doesn't translate so
well to radio, so it probably pulsed a continuous tone, which was easier
to decode at the other end.

Its called SECODE aka Pulse Dialing.. it sends a steady tone to break ie:
pulse, and works the same as POTS pulse dialing.. just on RF..
--
I MADE America Great Again! President Trump! I put a stake in that bitch
for good!

--
I MADE America Great Again! President Trump! I put a stake in that bitch
for good!

Verminator

2016-12-19 01:52:18 UTC

Its call SECODE! It was just as easy to decode this, as DTMF. Later IMTS
used DTMF.

Quickly its a tone that is sent and then it breaks that tone in the same
way it pulse dials on pulse.

This was used on IMTS aka mobile phones ala Banaceck..

It was used and still is used on EMS HEAR channels for selective calling
a hospital from an EMS unit(s)...

Each hospital had a "SECODE Dial Code" Multiple hospitals shared say
155.340 and then you "dialed" their code to turn on the radio at the
hospital to give a report or get orders think Riverside on Emergency!

https://www.midians.com/products/pulse-tone-encoders-decoders

--
I MADE America Great Again! President Trump! I put a stake in that bitch
for good!

David Lesher

2016-12-19 02:17:07 UTC

Sez who? In what era, with what technology?

danny burstein

2016-12-19 02:54:41 UTC

Post by David Lesher

Sez who? In what era, with what technology?

Dual Tone is more reliable than single

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_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Michael Black

2016-12-18 04:16:59 UTC

hadn't yet turned off the sound from the tv, the tape delay on radio was
quite noticeable.

Its NOT "TAPE DELAY!"

EVeryone knows it's no longer tape, but it's okay to use the phrase "tape
delay", we know what he meant.
Michael

Like dialing a phone.

I can dial a phone anytime I want. The kitchen phone still has an actual
rotary dial.

Michael

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-18 04:43:14 UTC

Post by Michael Black
I can dial a phone anytime I want. The kitchen phone still has an actual
rotary dial.

Does Canada still charge extra for Touch Tone service?

Michael Black

2016-12-18 16:10:17 UTC

Post by Michael Black
I can dial a phone anytime I want. The kitchen phone still has an actual
rotary dial.

Does Canada still charge extra for Touch Tone service?

Yes.

As I think I've said before, some years back Bell went to the CRTC, which
regulates such fees, and asked to make TouchTone something for everyone.
But they wanted their money, so it meant the basic phone line would be
increased by a small bit. And the CRTC said no.

So they really have to keep old equipment going because they don't want
everyone to freely have TouchTone.

Michael

Adam H. Kerman

2016-12-18 17:06:33 UTC

Post by Michael Black
I can dial a phone anytime I want. The kitchen phone still has an actual
rotary dial.

Does Canada still charge extra for Touch Tone service?

Yes.
As I think I've said before, some years back Bell went to the CRTC, which
regulates such fees, and asked to make TouchTone something for everyone.
But they wanted their money, so it meant the basic phone line would be
increased by a small bit. And the CRTC said no.
So they really have to keep old equipment going because they don't want
everyone to freely have TouchTone.

Not to make this too telecomish, existing telephone switches required
separate signal processors for touch tone. Newer switches were designed
with touch tone in mind. The regulators were using a pricing model
as if equipment were added to older switches, even if a newer switch
had already been installed in places.

My state got fed up with the games in the early '90s and eliminated
the touchtone surcharge. In the late 1980s, they began selling push-button
telephones that could be switched between pulse and tone dialing. If
one didn't wish to pay the surcharge (or was behind an old switch
without the touchtone signal processor), to dial the call, one would
use pulse. But if there were an automated attendant or options menu,
one would have to switch to tone dialing during the call.

Same thing with call pricing in which the first minute had a high price
and additional minutes had low prices: That was to pay for the operator's
wages to set up the call, failing to acknowledge that domestic long
distance and some international calls could be dialed direct, as
implemented gradually in the 1950s and deployed for a significant number
of calls by the mid 1960s.

But the pricing model would never change to acknowledge reality.

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-19 03:29:58 UTC

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Same thing with call pricing in which the first minute had a high price
and additional minutes had low prices: That was to pay for the operator's
wages to set up the call, failing to acknowledge that domestic long
distance and some international calls could be dialed direct, as
implemented gradually in the 1950s and deployed for a significant number
of calls by the mid 1960s.

Around 1971 the Bell System switched from a three minute minimum to a
one minute minimum for dialed-direct toll calls to reflect automation.
For those few places that still had manual service, direct-dial rates
still applied for basic toll calls.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
But the pricing model would never change to acknowledge reality.

The Bell System pricing model was intended by both state and federal
regulators to subsidize basic service. That is, premium services
made a good profit while bare bones basic service was offered at a loss.
In my area one could get a basic phone line, including a telephone set,
for about $3/month.

One of things Bell got out Divestiture was a more realistic pricing model.
So, long distance got cheaper while local service cost more, among
other changes.

The book, "Heritage & Destiny in the Bell System" explains a lot of
this stuff, including what the public lost as a result of Divestiture.

Historical note: In WW II, Bell ran frequent ads asking the public NOT
to use the phone since they were overloaded with war traffic.

h***@bbs.cpcn.com

2016-12-20 19:39:04 UTC

Speaking of long distance, here is an ad from the Bell System from 1941
asking folks NOT to make calls on Christmas due to overloaded circuits:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Zk4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA7&dq=life%20bell%20telephone%20christmas&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=life%20bell%20telephone%20christmas&f=false

These kinds of ads would continue throughout the war years until
traffic reduced and Bell was able to get materials and labor to
build more long distance lines.

Back then long distance was inefficient as calls had to be manually
"built up" by several operators along the route from origin to
destination. Often circuits were busy and the call had to be
held.

Bell had a huge automation effort throughout the 1950s. Both
local exchanges got dial, and long distance interconnections were
automated.

By the late 1950s Bell had enough resources that it could advertise
for extra services and equipment:
https://books.google.com/books?id=xlUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA155&dq=life%20bell%20telephone%20christmas&pg=PA155#v=onepage&q=life%20bell%20telephone%20christmas&f=false

Obveeus

2016-12-18 13:38:30 UTC

Post by Michael Black
I can dial a phone anytime I want. The kitchen phone still has an actual
rotary dial.

...which is fine for calling a person, but doesn't work if you call an
automated phone system and have to 'press 1'.

Verminator

2016-12-18 12:09:46 UTC

Post by anim8rfsk
Like dialing a phone.

Analogy, FAILURE!

WRONG!

There is a delay

1) Caused by transmission methods, and the physics of RF, light, and
electrons on cables... it can only go so fast... the delay is fractions
of a second, but over multiple hops it can add up to a few seconds. Thats
why you will see a slight delay with the dufus's during the SNG/ENG stuff
before they respond to the other dufus's questions.

2) Caused by conversion of signal from A/D/A/D each time a signal is
converted from A/D that process takes again fractions of seconds, but it
can happen as things transverse delivery mediums... even D/D ie: format
changes.. maybe it changes from WAV to MP3 or etc.. Again this might
happen a couple times

3) Actual DELAY for profanity or other reasons aka a "Tape Delay"

So its clear that YOU AND Verman don't have a grasp on the subject.

Thats why you can have multiple reception devices in a home and have a
slight echo to them as the device decodes this, and that decoding delay
is just slightly different than the other(s).

A "tape delay" is INTENTIONALLY DELAYED. The others are not intentional
its just inherent in the delivery methods used.

Get back to me when you and Verman have a clue.

--
I MADE America Great Again! President Trump! I put a stake in that bitch
for good!

Verminator

2016-12-18 12:08:47 UTC