Discussion:
No, It�s Not Your Opinion. You�re Just Wrong
(too old to reply)
jess stone
2015-07-28 15:59:13 UTC
Permalink
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752

I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I’ve come to loath more than any other is
“opinion”. Opinion, or worse “belief”, has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.

<snark>
EGK
2015-07-28 16:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I’ve come to loath more than any other is
“opinion”. Opinion, or worse “belief”, has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
<snark>
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man - The Dude
Hass
2015-07-28 16:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I've come to loath more than any other is
"opinion". Opinion, or worse "belief", has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
<snark>
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man - The Dude
"Shut the fuck up Donnie!!!"
Ed Stasiak
2015-07-28 16:41:00 UTC
Permalink
jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
AKA: It's An Opinion And Wrong If It Disagrees With The "Progressive" Platform.
FPP
2015-07-28 22:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Stasiak
jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
It's An Opinion And Wrong If It Disagrees With The "Progressive" Platform.
... and an asshole, is an asshole, is an asshole.
--
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, and the
lessons afterward.
Adam H. Kerman
2015-07-28 16:46:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I've come to loath more than any other is
"opinion". Opinion, or worse "belief", has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
<snark>
That was written by Jef Rouner, 7-23-2015.

Are you going to point out the bits that he wrote that were STOOPID?

Let's take

You saw this same thing recently when questions about
the Confederate flag started making the rounds. It may
be your opinion that slavery was not the driving cause
of the Civil War, but the Texas Articles of Secession
https://tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html mention
slavery 21 times (rights are mentioned only six, and only once
in a sentence that doesn't mention either slavery or how way
more flippin' awesome white people are than black people). Do I
even need to point out that some people are also of the opinion
the Holocaust was fake, and that their opinion means absolutely
nothing to the reality?

He demonstrates attrocious debating style by self-Godwinning; what a maroon.

Unless you slept through American history, students learned that the Civil
War had numerous causes. Yes, slavery was an important cause, and it was
an underlying reason for some of the other causes, but don't be totally
dismissive of all the other important causes. Wars generally have economic
causes; the Civil War didn't uniquely have no important economic causes.

Also, let's feign ignorance of how it is that Texas came to break away from
Mexico in the first place: It was over slavery. This would make the Civil
War Texas seceding for the SECOND time, which is rather different than
the rest of the states that formed the Confederacy.

That's like assigning highly moral motives to all abolitionists. Sure,
some abolitionists saw slaves as human beings unjustly and immorally
robbed of their liberty and dignity, but plenty of abolitionists didn't
want there to be any black people in the New World. In other words,
a lot of them were segregationists.

The first briefly successful political movement at integration, not just
ending slavery, was led by the Radical Republicans during the early years
of Reconstruction. That was a complete change of thinking from what many
abolitionists wanted.

It's so much easier to look at history through modern eyes and assign
modern motives to politics and important historical figures whenver
possible, than to discuss history as being made by highly imperfect human
beings who were a mix of good and bad.

But that's just my opinion.
Rhino
2015-07-28 18:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I've come to loath more than any other is
"opinion". Opinion, or worse "belief", has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
<snark>
That was written by Jef Rouner, 7-23-2015.
Are you going to point out the bits that he wrote that were STOOPID?
Let's take
You saw this same thing recently when questions about
the Confederate flag started making the rounds. It may
be your opinion that slavery was not the driving cause
of the Civil War, but the Texas Articles of Secession
https://tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html mention
slavery 21 times (rights are mentioned only six, and only once
in a sentence that doesn't mention either slavery or how way
more flippin' awesome white people are than black people). Do I
even need to point out that some people are also of the opinion
the Holocaust was fake, and that their opinion means absolutely
nothing to the reality?
He demonstrates attrocious debating style by self-Godwinning; what a maroon.
Unless you slept through American history, students learned that the Civil
War had numerous causes. Yes, slavery was an important cause, and it was
an underlying reason for some of the other causes, but don't be totally
dismissive of all the other important causes. Wars generally have economic
causes; the Civil War didn't uniquely have no important economic causes.
Also, let's feign ignorance of how it is that Texas came to break away from
Mexico in the first place: It was over slavery. This would make the Civil
War Texas seceding for the SECOND time, which is rather different than
the rest of the states that formed the Confederacy.
That's like assigning highly moral motives to all abolitionists. Sure,
some abolitionists saw slaves as human beings unjustly and immorally
robbed of their liberty and dignity, but plenty of abolitionists didn't
want there to be any black people in the New World. In other words,
a lot of them were segregationists.
I believe those segregationist impulses at least partially motivated the
efforts taken to send blacks back to Africa before slavery had been
abolished. For instance, the establishment of Liberia under President
Monroe, was apparently an attempt to repatriate blacks to Africa where
they could supposedly live in freedom - and NOT inspire other blacks to
get restless for their own freedom.

See this article on Liberia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia

Also, see this article on the American Colonization Society, which was
the driving force behind setting up Liberia and was composed of an
uneasy mix of slave-owners and abolitionists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Colonization_Society
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The first briefly successful political movement at integration, not just
ending slavery, was led by the Radical Republicans during the early years
of Reconstruction. That was a complete change of thinking from what many
abolitionists wanted.
It's so much easier to look at history through modern eyes and assign
modern motives to politics and important historical figures whenver
possible, than to discuss history as being made by highly imperfect human
beings who were a mix of good and bad.
But that's just my opinion.
Personally, I'd call it more of an observation than an opinion but I
don't want to undermine your rhetorical flourish :-)

Your points are very sound though. It's just wrong to try to see
everything in terms of modern values. Centuries ago, people tended to
see things quite differently than we do today. Things that we abhor
today and consider antithetical to freedom were absolutely normal and
widely accepted. Slavery is just one of many, many examples of the
practices that repulse us today but were nearly universally accepted not
so long ago.
--
Rhino
Rhino
2015-07-28 18:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I’ve come to loath more than any other is
“opinion”. Opinion, or worse “belief”, has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
<snark>
Clint Eastwood, as Dirty Harry, said it best: "Opinions are like
assholes: everybody's got one."

My friend had a great corollary to that: "Why does everyone have to show
me theirs?"
--
Rhino
FPP
2015-07-28 22:07:58 UTC
Permalink
On 2015-07-28 14:01:15 -0400, Rhino
Post by Rhino
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
I
Post by Rhino
Post by jess stone
spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I’ve come to loath more than any other is
“opinion”. Opinion, or worse “belief”, has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
<snark>
Clint Eastwood, as Dirty Harry, said it best: "Opinions are like
assholes: everybody's got one."
My friend had a great corollary to that: "Why does everyone have to
show me theirs?"
And some people have MORE than one... just ask Ubi.
--
Q: How do you know when <***@nowhere.com> is lying? A: Ubiquitous
<***@polaris.net> fingers are moving.
<***@nowhere.com> reveals himself to be a sockpuppet of sickpuppy
Ubiquitous <***@polaris.net>

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3Cmen81d%24lq0%241%40dont-email.me%3E
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BTR1701
2015-07-29 01:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-76
11752
I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I've come to loath more than any other is
"opinion". Opinion, or worse "belief", has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
"There¹s a common conception that an opinion cannot be wrong."

Probably stems from the legal notion that opinions cannot be defamatory.
Only statements of fact can.
FPP
2015-07-29 02:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
opinions cannot be defamatory
Provided they are truly opinions...
Post by BTR1701
Adding the words "in my opinion" generally will not be sufficient to
transform a factual statement to a protected opinion.
Some statements of fact are so egregious that they will always be
considered defamatory. Such statements are typically referred to as
defamation "per se." These types of statements are assumed to harm the
plaintiff's reputation, without further need to prove that harm.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/what-defamatory-statement
--
All generalizations are false. -Twain
BTR1701
2015-07-29 03:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by BTR1701
opinions cannot be defamatory
Provided they are truly opinions...
Post by BTR1701
Adding the words "in my opinion" generally will not be sufficient to
transform a factual statement to a protected opinion.
Which doesn't negate what I said at all.

Michael Black
2015-07-29 03:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by jess stone
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
I spend far more time arguing on the Internet than can possibly be
healthy, and the word I?ve come to loath more than any other is
?opinion?. Opinion, or worse ?belief?, has become the shield of every
poorly-conceived notion that worms its way onto social media.
<snark>
I would point out that for a lot of people, their "opinion" is something
they get from someone else. SO they are arguing someone else's opinion,
and since it's not their's, they can't argue it well. On the other hand,
taking aside and arguing it should technically help to make something
their own, but I'm not sure that happens.

Michael
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