Discussion:
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
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G C
2017-08-27 22:40:52 UTC
Permalink
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/

How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?

Though its major import is President Trump’s official
endorsement of racist discrimination in law enforcement, a
flagrant contempt for judges is the subtext.


In the wake of President Trump’s pardon of Arizona Sheriff Joe
Arpaio, reporters are likely to hear words as harsh as
“disturbed” and “concerned“ floated by anonymous leaders of the
president’s party on Capitol Hill.

There will be few if any leaks from the Supreme Court. But one
must wonder what messages the justices are getting from Trump’s
extraordinary pardon. Though its major import is Trump’s
official endorsement of racist discrimination in law
enforcement, a flagrant contempt for judges and courts is the
subtext. The issue in the Arpaio case was the very integrity of
the federal judiciary. He was not convicted of an ordinary
crime, but of deliberately disobeying a federal court order and
lying about that; but beyond that, during the litigation that
led to his conviction for criminal contempt, he hired a private
detective to investigate the wife of a federal judge hearing a
case against his office. Any judge can understand the threat
posed by law enforcement personnel who seek to strike back at
judges and their families, perhaps for purposes of blackmail or
revenge—and the deep arrogance of a president who regards such
behavior as praiseworthy.

In fact, since even before the election, Trump has brandished
his hostility to judges almost as aggressively as his disregard
of racial decency. When federal district Judge Gonzalo Curiel
was assigned the Trump University civil fraud case, Trump
attacked the Indiana-born Curiel in front of a campaign rally
as “Mexican” and “a total disgrace.” When Judge James Robart (a
George W. Bush appointee) of the District of Washington
enjoined the first version of Trump’s “travel ban,” Trump on
Twitter dismissed Robart as a “so-called judge" and told his
supporters “If something happens blame him and court system.”
When another District Judge enjoined his “sanctuary cities”
defunding order, Trump publicly threatened to break up the
Ninth Circuit. When a terror cell carried out a car attack in
Barcelona earlier this month, Trump immediately zeroed in on
the “travel ban” case, now pending before the Supreme Court:
“The courts must give us back our protective rights,” he
tweeted.

Every indication is that Trump will respond to an adverse
Supreme Court ruling on any important issue with a full-
throated assault on the court and on the very idea of judicial
independence. That the court’s majority is conservative and
Republican won’t matter. Sen. Mitch McConnell can testify to
Trump’s lack of respect for his fellow Republicans; and for
that matter so can Chief Justice John Roberts, whom Trump
dismissed during the election campaign as “an absolute
disaster” because of his vote upholding the “individual
mandate” portion of the Affordable Care Act.

Supreme Court justices live in a different world than most of
us. They are protected by life tenure, and swaddled in a day-
to-day environment as obsequious as the biblical court of
Nebuchadnezzar. They are rarely racially profiled at traffic
stops, set upon by chanting thugs with tiki torches, or run
over by cars at political protests. Ordinary citizens may feel
the changing winds of politics more quickly and keenly than
justices.

Yet politics, in somewhat distorted form, makes its way into
their protective cocoon sooner or later. Is it possible that
the Arpaio pardon will be the moment that the conservative
justices, or some of them, realize that this is not an ordinary
administration, and that the cases coming before them this fall
have higher than ordinary stakes?

Judges are usually expected to put aside the present political
meaning of legal issues—will this decision help my party or the
other party?—and consider them under the gaze of eternity.
Administrations come and go, the theory says; decisions about
the meaning of statutes or the scope of presidential authority
may persist long after this issue has been forgotten. The issue
thus should ordinarily not be, “Will this help or hurt Trump?”
but “In the long run, which conforms better to the wording of a
statute or the structure of the Constitution?”

But what if the issue behind present cases is whether, four or
ten years hence, we will have a Constitution or a self-
governing republic at all? How clear would those stakes have to
be before the justices will decide that they may be the only
emergency brake cord in a government threatening to jump the
tracks?

History isn’t encouraging. Judges frequently like to roar from
the bench about their independence and high-mindedness; but
when it comes to true independence, these lions of the law
often turn cowardly. Times of war and emergency make them even
more timorous. The court enthusiastically backed Woodrow
Wilson’s World War I crackdown on civil liberties; it meekly
surrendered to the Japanese Internment. In two Nixon-era cases,
the court held that media outlets could publish the formerly
secret Pentagon Papers, and that Nixon had to turn over the
“smoking gun” tape to a federal court. But those decisions,
historically, are anomalous.

Much more typical is the rhetorical switcheroo played by the
court in Ziglar v. Abbasi last term. The plaintiffs in that
case were improperly documented aliens who were snatched off
the street after the 9/11 attack and held for months even
though there was no evidence linking them to terrorism. High-
ranking officials at the Department of Justice ordered them
held unlawfully, and instructed that the conditions be
“restrictive”—which in practice meant solitary confinement,
beatings, and lack of sleep. Sixteen years later, they were
still seeking a chance to make their case against the higher-
ups who authorized the mistreatment. The court’s majority threw
out their case. Justice Anthony Kennedy’s opinion contained the
obligatory preen: “Nothing in this opinion should be read to
condone the treatment to which [the plaintiffs] contend they
were subjected.” But at its heart, the opinion’s concern ran
entirely toward the powerful: the great danger would be a
decision that would “chill the interchange and discourse that
is necessary for the adoption and implementation of
governmental policies.”
Trump has made it clear that the limits of the law, and the
powers of the courts, hold no weight in his decision-making,
and indeed will be brushed aside at his convenience.

If the Ziglar opinion is defensible at all (in case it’s not
obvious, I side with Justice Stephen Breyer, along with Justice
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who dissented), it is defensible as an
exercise of that “what if?” vision I mentioned above. That is,
assuming the republic survives, should future executive
officials have to worry about being sued when they make
emergency decisions?

But increasingly, the question for the court—as for Congress,
and for the country—is whether the republic survives not
against external threat but against an unprecedented
unremitting internal assault. A sense of proportion is
necessary in crisis and calm; and even in the midst of shocking
official misbehavior, the Arpaio pardon crosses a line. Trump
has made it clear that the limits of the law, and the powers of
the courts, hold no weight in his decision-making, and indeed
will be brushed aside at his convenience.

Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
BTR1701
2017-08-28 01:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.

If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
Siri Cruise
2017-08-28 03:02:35 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Free the Amos Yee one. This post / \
Yeah, too bad about your so-called life. Ha-ha. insults Islam. Mohammed
Scout
2017-08-28 03:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
Well, given this is a power granted to the President by the
Constitution....I fail to see where impeachment would even be an option.

I mean if we can let a bunch of terrorists go, I think we can let one cop
go. Particularly when his only crime was attempting to enforce the law as he
is sworn to do.
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 03:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it.
It's not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an
opportunity to rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated
case in the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio
pardon?" well, that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a
case not on its merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is
under attack, and what how it might defend its courts. If a president
disobeys a court decision, the Congress is forced to join the president
in attacking the judiciary or impeaching the president.
Well, given this is a power granted to the President by the
Constitution....I fail to see where impeachment would even be an option.
I mean if we can let a bunch of terrorists go, I think we can let one cop
go. Particularly when his only crime was attempting to enforce the law as he
is sworn to do.
Yeah... except for all the civil rights violations.
anim8rfsk
2017-08-28 04:12:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Scout
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-the-courts-r
espond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it.
It's not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an
opportunity to rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated
case in the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio
pardon?" well, that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a
case not on its merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is
under attack, and what how it might defend its courts. If a president
disobeys a court decision, the Congress is forced to join the president
in attacking the judiciary or impeaching the president.
Well, given this is a power granted to the President by the
Constitution....I fail to see where impeachment would even be an option.
I mean if we can let a bunch of terrorists go, I think we can let one cop
go. Particularly when his only crime was attempting to enforce the law as he
is sworn to do.
Yeah... except for all the civil rights violations.
If they wanted him to stop enforcing the law, they should have changed
the law. A lot of people should go to prison for this mess, but Arpaio
isn't one of them.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 04:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Scout
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-the-courts-r
espond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it.
It's not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an
opportunity to rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated
case in the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio
pardon?" well, that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a
case not on its merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is
under attack, and what how it might defend its courts. If a president
disobeys a court decision, the Congress is forced to join the president
in attacking the judiciary or impeaching the president.
Well, given this is a power granted to the President by the
Constitution....I fail to see where impeachment would even be an option.
I mean if we can let a bunch of terrorists go, I think we can let one cop
go. Particularly when his only crime was attempting to enforce the law as he
is sworn to do.
Yeah... except for all the civil rights violations.
If they wanted him to stop enforcing the law, they should have changed
the law. A lot of people should go to prison for this mess, but Arpaio
isn't one of them.
If he had someone in custody already, there was no civil rights violation
to check immigration status. You can't just pull people over for "driving
while Mexican" to check immigration status, not in Arizona with a
large number who aren't illegal aliens, if they weren't born here.
FPP
2017-08-28 05:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Scout
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-the-courts-r
espond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it.
It's not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an
opportunity to rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated
case in the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio
pardon?" well, that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a
case not on its merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is
under attack, and what how it might defend its courts. If a president
disobeys a court decision, the Congress is forced to join the president
in attacking the judiciary or impeaching the president.
Well, given this is a power granted to the President by the
Constitution....I fail to see where impeachment would even be an option.
I mean if we can let a bunch of terrorists go, I think we can let one cop
go. Particularly when his only crime was attempting to enforce the law as he
is sworn to do.
Yeah... except for all the civil rights violations.
If they wanted him to stop enforcing the law, they should have changed
the law. A lot of people should go to prison for this mess, but Arpaio
isn't one of them.
Who violated the court order? Remind us...
--
"The 2016 Republican Party Platform... it's not so much a platform, as
it is the Republican Party's suicide note." -S. Bee
FPP
2017-08-28 05:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
Well, given this is a power granted to the President by the
Constitution....I fail to see where impeachment would even be an option.
I mean if we can let a bunch of terrorists go, I think we can let one
cop go. Particularly when his only crime was attempting to enforce the
law as he is sworn to do.
He violated a lawful court order. That's what you think he swore to do?
Last I checked it was the other way around.

Arpaio's whole career has been about humiliating and dehumanizing his
prisoners. Any petty tyrant can do that to people who are under his
absolute control.

Doesn't make them a hero, except to people like you.
--
"The 2016 Republican Party Platform... it's not so much a platform, as
it is the Republican Party's suicide note." -S. Bee
Just Wondering
2017-08-28 06:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution. It does not involve attacking the judicial
branch in any way, shape or form. It dies not involve disobeying a
court decision. And it also does not involve Congress or implicate its
impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
Siri Cruise
2017-08-28 09:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution. It does not involve attacking the judicial
branch in any way, shape or form. It dies not involve disobeying a
court decision. And it also does not involve Congress or implicate its
impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
I'm sure every federal judge will be heartenned by your keen insight.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Free the Amos Yee one. This post / \
Yeah, too bad about your so-called life. Ha-ha. insults Islam. Mohammed
Just Wondering
2017-08-28 19:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution. It does not involve attacking the judicial
branch in any way, shape or form. It dies not involve disobeying a
court decision. And it also does not involve Congress or implicate its
impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
I'm sure every federal judge will be heartened by your keen insight.
Federal judges already know this. They don't need my keen insight.
I see you ignored my advice to try posting something semi-intelligent.
FPP
2017-08-28 22:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an
opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution. It does not involve attacking the judicial
branch in any way, shape or form. It dies not involve disobeying a
court decision. And it also does not involve Congress or implicate its
impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
I'm sure every federal judge will be heartened by your keen insight.
Federal judges already know this. They don't need my keen insight.
I see you ignored my advice to try posting something semi-intelligent.
Why waste it...
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 13:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution.
No one is contesting that. *THIS* pardon is an attack on the judiciary.
The shitbag, Arpaio, didn't violate a statute. He violated a judicial
injunction to stop violating the constitutional rights of people. A
judicial injunction is the only way to stop that violation. Trump
unquestionably has the constitutional power to pardon, but he
unquestionably misused it in this case.
BTR1701
2017-08-28 17:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution.
No one is contesting that. *THIS* pardon is an attack on the judiciary.
The shitbag, Arpaio, didn't violate a statute. He violated a judicial
injunction to stop violating the constitutional rights of people. A
judicial injunction is the only way to stop that violation. Trump
unquestionably has the constitutional power to pardon, but he
unquestionably misused it in this case.
The Constitution places no limits on the president's power to pardon for
federal offenses. For Congress or the Judicial Branch to attempt to do so
absent a constitutional amendment would be itself a constitutional
violation of the Separation of Powers.
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 17:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution.
No one is contesting that. *THIS* pardon is an attack on the judiciary.
The shitbag, Arpaio, didn't violate a statute. He violated a judicial
injunction to stop violating the constitutional rights of people. A
judicial injunction is the only way to stop that violation. Trump
unquestionably has the constitutional power to pardon, but he
unquestionably misused it in this case.
The Constitution places no limits on the president's power to pardon for
federal offenses.
Not the issue. The issue is the wisdom of the pardon and Trump's motive
in granting it. It was 100% political. Arpaio hadn't even been
sentenced yet, and had not requested a pardon.
max headroom
2017-08-28 18:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
The Constitution places no limits on the president's power to pardon for
federal offenses.
Not the issue. The issue is the wisdom of the pardon and Trump's motive
in granting it. It was 100% political. Arpaio hadn't even been
sentenced yet, and had not requested a pardon.
Nixon hadn't been sentenced, or tried, or even charged with a crime, when Ford pardoned him.

No one raised the issue of impeachment regarding Obama's pardons, or Dubya's, or BJ's, or Bush the
1st's. TDS is in play on this one.
Siri Cruise
2017-08-28 21:50:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by max headroom
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
The Constitution places no limits on the president's power to pardon for
federal offenses.
Not the issue. The issue is the wisdom of the pardon and Trump's motive
in granting it. It was 100% political. Arpaio hadn't even been
sentenced yet, and had not requested a pardon.
Nixon hadn't been sentenced, or tried, or even charged with a crime, when
Ford pardoned him.
No one raised the issue of impeachment regarding Obama's pardons, or Dubya's,
or BJ's, or Bush the
1st's. TDS is in play on this one.
None of who had demonstrated contempt of the judiciary and bigotry like Drumpf.
Bush claimed he could he ignore habeas corpus, but he folded. None of the others
ever came close. Clinton accepted his own contempt decision.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Free the Amos Yee one. This post / \
Yeah, too bad about your so-called life. Ha-ha. insults Islam. Mohammed
max headroom
2017-08-28 22:07:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by max headroom
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
The Constitution places no limits on the president's power to pardon for
federal offenses.
Not the issue. The issue is the wisdom of the pardon and Trump's motive
in granting it. It was 100% political. Arpaio hadn't even been
sentenced yet, and had not requested a pardon.
Nixon hadn't been sentenced, or tried, or even charged with a crime, when
Ford pardoned him.
No one raised the issue of impeachment regarding Obama's pardons, or Dubya's,
or BJ's, or Bush the 1st's. TDS is in play on this one.
None of who had demonstrated contempt of the judiciary and bigotry like Drumpf....
As I said, TDS is in play here.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-08-28 15:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power expressly
granted in the Constitution.  It does not involve attacking the judicial
branch in any way, shape or form.  It dies not involve disobeying a
court decision.  And it also does not involve Congress or implicate its
impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
If the President abuses the pardon power in the eyes of Congress,
impeachment is an appropriate response. I think Trump has abused the
pardon power. He has effectively said that when he (Trump) disagrees
with a court order, he will pardon the person affected by that order.
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
#BeamMeUpScotty
2017-08-28 15:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power
expressly granted in the Constitution. It does not involve attacking
the judicial branch in any way, shape or form. It dies not involve
disobeying a court decision. And it also does not involve Congress or
implicate its impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
If the President abuses the pardon power in the eyes of Congress,
impeachment is an appropriate response.
Democrats in Congress were showing their incompetence when Obama began
pardoning and commuting sentences of convicted criminals that did harm
to the United States, and they did nothing?
--
That's Karma
FPP
2017-08-28 22:27:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power
expressly granted in the Constitution. It does not involve attacking
the judicial branch in any way, shape or form. It dies not involve
disobeying a court decision. And it also does not involve Congress or
implicate its impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
If the President abuses the pardon power in the eyes of Congress,
impeachment is an appropriate response.
Democrats in Congress were showing their incompetence when Obama began
pardoning and commuting sentences of convicted criminals that did harm
to the United States, and they did nothing?
They didn't need to do anything about the ravings of a lunatic, Scotty...
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Mack A. Damia
2017-08-28 22:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power
expressly granted in the Constitution. It does not involve attacking
the judicial branch in any way, shape or form. It dies not involve
disobeying a court decision. And it also does not involve Congress or
implicate its impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
If the President abuses the pardon power in the eyes of Congress,
impeachment is an appropriate response.
Democrats in Congress were showing their incompetence when Obama began
pardoning and commuting sentences of convicted criminals that did harm
to the United States, and they did nothing?
They didn't need to do anything about the ravings of a lunatic, Scotty...
That's because it was a Republican Congress that did nowt, speaking of
raving lunatics.

Or did you conveniently forget that fact?
BTR1701
2017-08-28 17:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 17:17:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong. The pardon power was intended to grant the president
clemency power for people who had been convicted of violating statutory
laws. This pardon, while constitutional, was a direct assault on the
federal judiciary. That figures. Trump wants to be a dictator.
BTR1701
2017-08-28 17:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong. The pardon power was intended to grant the president
clemency power for people who had been convicted of violating statutory
laws. This pardon, while constitutional, was a direct assault on the
federal judiciary. That figures. Trump wants to be a dictator.
That's like saying a congressional override of a presidential veto is a
"direct assault on the Executive Branch". I suppose you can phrase it that
way, but it's a meaningless distinction. Checks and balances means that the
three branches are supposed to "assault" each other by using the various
powers given to them in the Constitution.
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 17:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong. The pardon power was intended to grant the president
clemency power for people who had been convicted of violating statutory
laws. This pardon, while constitutional, was a direct assault on the
federal judiciary. That figures. Trump wants to be a dictator.
That's like saying a congressional override of a presidential veto is a
"direct assault on the Executive Branch".
It's not like that at all.
BTR1701
2017-08-28 21:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong. The pardon power was intended to grant the president
clemency power for people who had been convicted of violating statutory
laws. This pardon, while constitutional, was a direct assault on the
federal judiciary. That figures. Trump wants to be a dictator.
That's like saying a congressional override of a presidential veto is a
"direct assault on the Executive Branch". I suppose you can phrase it that
way, but it's a meaningless distinction. Checks and balances means that
the three branches are supposed to "assault" each other by using the
various powers given to them in the Constitution.
It's not like that at all.
Yeah, it really is.
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 21:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong. The pardon power was intended to grant the president
clemency power for people who had been convicted of violating statutory
laws. This pardon, while constitutional, was a direct assault on the
federal judiciary. That figures. Trump wants to be a dictator.
That's like saying a congressional override of a presidential veto is a
"direct assault on the Executive Branch". I suppose you can phrase it that
way, but it's a meaningless distinction. Checks and balances means that
the three branches are supposed to "assault" each other by using the
various powers given to them in the Constitution.
It's not like that at all.
Yeah, it really is.
It isn't.
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 18:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong. The pardon power was intended to grant the president
clemency power for people who had been convicted of violating statutory
laws. This pardon, while constitutional, was a direct assault on the
federal judiciary. That figures. Trump wants to be a dictator.
Oh dear gawd.

Criminal contempt is 18 U.S.C. Sections 401-403 and Federal Rule of
Criminal Procedure 42, which I found with my first Google search.

It's an unusual pardon, but it's a pardon for being convicted (but not
yet sentenced) of violating a statutory law.

Could a presidential pardon release someone being held in civil contempt
of a federal court?

If anyone cares, "clemency" is a broader term than "pardon", as it
also includes "commutation" (reduction of a sentence) and "remission"
(release of an obligation to pay a fine or make restitution). "Pardon"
means forgiveness. It's not a finding of actual innocence, though.
Just Wondering
2017-08-28 19:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong.  The pardon power was intended to grant the president
clemency power for people who had been convicted of violating statutory
laws.
Prove it. You won't, because you can't, because you have no proof.
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 19:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
No, that's wrong.  The pardon power was intended to grant the
president clemency power for people who had been convicted of
violating statutory laws.
Prove it.
<chuckle>
Just Wondering
2017-08-28 20:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in
the pardon power: to give the Executive Branch the
power to nullify orders and rulings of the Judicial
Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature,
not a bug.
No, that's wrong.  The pardon power was intended to grant the
president clemency power for people who had been convicted of
violating statutory laws.
 >
Prove it. You won't, because you can't, because you have no proof.
<chuckle>
Troll.
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 20:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon
power: to give the Executive Branch the
power to nullify orders and rulings of the Judicial
Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a bug.
No, that's wrong.  The pardon power was intended to grant the
president clemency power for people who had been convicted of
violating statutory laws.
 >
Prove it. You won't, because you can't, because you have no proof.
<chuckle>
Troll.
No, you're wrong about that, and you know it.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-08-28 17:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.

Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech). In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court. The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation. Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
BTR1701
2017-08-28 21:48:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
That's just your personal opinion, which is fine, but it has no basis in
constitutional law.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech). In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court. The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation. Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
I'd personally disagree with the choice to pardon, but as the power is
completely unrestricted by the Constitution, I would not claim it to be
abusive. And, frankly, every pardon will be considered "abusive" by someone
who disagrees with the recipient receiving clemency.
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 21:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
That's just your personal opinion, which is fine, but it has no basis in
constitutional law.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech). In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court. The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation. Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
I'd personally disagree with the choice to pardon, but as the power is
completely unrestricted by the Constitution,
Not the issue. It is not what the pardon power was intended to do.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-08-28 22:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
That's just your personal opinion, which is fine, but it has no basis in
constitutional law.
Nor does your opinion to the contrary. What constitutional law informs
us is Congress (through impeachment and removal) and the people (through
elections and popularity, the latter being critical to a President's
political capital) decide whether a pardon is an abuse of power.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech). In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court. The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation. Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
I'd personally disagree with the choice to pardon, but as the power is
completely unrestricted by the Constitution, I would not claim it to be
abusive. And, frankly, every pardon will be considered "abusive" by someone
who disagrees with the recipient receiving clemency.
The fact that all pardons are constitutionally permitted (save perhaps a
self-pardon) doesn't tell us one thing about whether they should be
considered an abuse of power (which of course is a matter of opinion).
I think the above pardon is an abuse of power. I guess you don't, which
I find amazing.
FPP
2017-08-28 22:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech). In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court. The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation. Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
Look, no matter how shitty this was, it wasn't anything near an abuse of
power.
An abuse of every norm we have, sure... but it's an established power
the president has.

Unless he was doing it in the commission of a crime, it's perfectly
legal. And, even then, the only remedy is impeachment.
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-08-28 22:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech).  In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court.  The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation.  Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
Look, no matter how shitty this was, it wasn't anything near an abuse of
power.
An abuse of every norm we have, sure... but it's an established power
the president has.
You, as others here, have conflated an established permissible power and
abuse. It is perfectly possible for a President to legally exercise his
pardon power in an abusive manner.
Post by FPP
Unless he was doing it in the commission of a crime, it's perfectly
legal.  And, even then, the only remedy is impeachment.
FPP
2017-08-28 23:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by FPP
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech). In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court. The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation. Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
Look, no matter how shitty this was, it wasn't anything near an abuse
of power.
An abuse of every norm we have, sure... but it's an established power
the president has.
You, as others here, have conflated an established permissible power and
abuse. It is perfectly possible for a President to legally exercise his
pardon power in an abusive manner.
Post by FPP
Unless he was doing it in the commission of a crime, it's perfectly
legal. And, even then, the only remedy is impeachment.
Yup... but "abuse of power" aren't just random words. They carry a
legal meaning.
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-08-28 23:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by FPP
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech).  In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court.  The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation.  Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
Look, no matter how shitty this was, it wasn't anything near an abuse
of power.
An abuse of every norm we have, sure... but it's an established power
the president has.
You, as others here, have conflated an established permissible power and
abuse.  It is perfectly possible for a President to legally exercise his
pardon power in an abusive manner.
Post by FPP
Unless he was doing it in the commission of a crime, it's perfectly
legal.  And, even then, the only remedy is impeachment.
Yup... but "abuse of power" aren't just random words.  They carry a
legal meaning.
Citation?
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 23:13:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech).  In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court.  The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation.  Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
Look, no matter how shitty this was, it wasn't anything near an abuse of
power.
An abuse of every norm we have, sure... but it's an established power
the president has.
It is an abuse of a constitutional power. This isn't the use of the
power the Constitution foresaw.
Just Wondering
2017-08-28 19:35:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power
expressly granted in the Constitution.  It does not involve attacking
the judicial branch in any way, shape or form.  It dies not involve
disobeying a court decision.  And it also does not involve Congress or
implicate its impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
If the President abuses the pardon power in the eyes of Congress,
impeachment is an appropriate response.  I think Trump has abused the
pardon power.  He has effectively said that when he (Trump) disagrees
with a court order, he will pardon the person affected by that order.
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
Were you born that stupid, or do you have to work at it? Congress can
only impeach for "high crimes and misdemeanors". A president's exercise
of the pardon power can therefore NEVER be grounds for impeachment.
The pardon power only applies to crimes, it's not a blanket runaround to
every court order. As for pardoning crimes, if you want to call THAT
ignoring court orders, that's the central PURPOSE of a pardon.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-08-28 22:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an
opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A presidential pardon is the exercise of a presidential power
expressly granted in the Constitution.  It does not involve attacking
the judicial branch in any way, shape or form.  It dies not involve
disobeying a court decision.  And it also does not involve Congress
or implicate its impeachment power.
Next time try posting something semi-intelligent for a change.
If the President abuses the pardon power in the eyes of Congress,
impeachment is an appropriate response.  I think Trump has abused the
pardon power.  He has effectively said that when he (Trump) disagrees
with a court order, he will pardon the person affected by that order.
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
Were you born that stupid, or do you have to work at it?  Congress can
only impeach for "high crimes and misdemeanors".  A president's exercise
of the pardon power can therefore NEVER be grounds for impeachment.
High crimes and misdemeanors has a broad meaning, implying impeachment
is a political act, a check by Congress on the other two branches. As
Gerald Ford said, "an impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the
House of Representatives considers to be at a given moment in history."
Abuse of power was one of the articles of impeachment voted out of
committee against Nixon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors#United_States
The pardon power only applies to crimes, it's not a blanket runaround to
every court order.  As for pardoning crimes, if you want to call THAT
ignoring court orders, that's the central PURPOSE of a pardon
BTR1701
2017-08-28 08:56:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
Just Wondering
2017-08-28 09:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
Or for the President to exercise his veto power in the first place. Or
for the Legislative branch to create courts inferior to the Supreme
Court and ordain what powers may be exercised by those courts.
FPP
2017-08-28 10:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
--
"The 2016 Republican Party Platform... it's not so much a platform, as
it is the Republican Party's suicide note." -S. Bee
Siri Cruise
2017-08-28 11:10:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Free the Amos Yee one. This post / \
Yeah, too bad about your so-called life. Ha-ha. insults Islam. Mohammed
FPP
2017-08-28 12:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
--
"The 2016 Republican Party Platform... it's not so much a platform, as
it is the Republican Party's suicide note." -S. Bee
max headroom
2017-08-28 12:53:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case against his wife?
Klaus Schadenfreude
2017-08-28 14:12:17 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 05:53:13 -0700, "max headroom"
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case against his wife?
"Laugh laugh laugh laugh."
-Lee Harrison 1957-2012, RIP

You were supposed to have forgotten about that already.
#BeamMeUpScotty
2017-08-28 14:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
If the President can pardon anyone, he isn't obstructing justice he's
intervening on behalf of justice, the President can interfere with the
justice system and is Constitutionally correct to do so.
--
That's Karma
trotsky
2017-08-28 15:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
If the President can pardon anyone, he isn't obstructing justice he's
intervening on behalf of justice, the President can interfere with the
justice system and is Constitutionally correct to do so.
You misspelled "contravening justice". You might want to look the word
up first.
#BeamMeUpScotty
2017-08-28 15:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by trotsky
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
If the President can pardon anyone, he isn't obstructing justice he's
intervening on behalf of justice, the President can interfere with the
justice system and is Constitutionally correct to do so.
You misspelled "contravening justice". You might want to look the word
up first.
When Obama did it for Marxist Terrorist types I called him anti
American, I didn't say he was violating the constitution....


TRUMP is doing it to protect America. Say what you will about the
America TRUMP is protecting but it is the one and only Constitutional
United States.
--
That's Karma
Siri Cruise
2017-08-28 16:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by trotsky
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
If the President can pardon anyone, he isn't obstructing justice he's
intervening on behalf of justice, the President can interfere with the
justice system and is Constitutionally correct to do so.
You misspelled "contravening justice". You might want to look the word
up first.
When Obama did it for Marxist Terrorist types I called him anti
American, I didn't say he was violating the constitution....
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled against his
executive orders?
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Free the Amos Yee one. This post / \
Yeah, too bad about your so-called life. Ha-ha. insults Islam. Mohammed
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 16:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled against his
executive orders?
I'm not expecting any followup, but what are you talking about?
anim8rfsk
2017-08-28 18:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Siri Cruise
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled against his
executive orders?
I'm not expecting any followup, but what are you talking about?
First Google hit for the phrase "Obama made personal attacks on judges
who ruled against his executive orders"

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/318783-trump-is-not-t
he-first-president-to-criticize-judiciary

I suppose the difference is that Obama didn't name names.

Even NPR mentions Obama's comments in this context:

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514587731/trumps-criticism-of-judges-out-of
-line-with-past-presidents
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 18:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Siri Cruise
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled against his
executive orders?
I'm not expecting any followup, but what are you talking about?
First Google hit for the phrase "Obama made personal attacks on judges
who ruled against his executive orders"
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/318783-trump-is-not-the-first-president-to-criticize-judiciary
I suppose the difference is that Obama didn't name names.
I forgot about Citizens United. Actually, they make Supreme Court justices
attend the State of the Union address, so Obama was addressing Roberts
directly, sitting right in the front row.

I suppose that was worse.

The "century of law" was true, for Citizens United found unconstitutional
a Wilson-era law, not just McCain-Feingold. I agreed with most of Citizens
United, if anyone cares, but I thought the Roberts court was wrong for
finding the Wilson-era law unconstitutional.
Post by anim8rfsk
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514587731/trumps-criticism-of-judges-out-of-line-with-past-presidents
I like Nina Totenberg quite a bit. Good find.
anim8rfsk
2017-08-28 19:19:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Siri Cruise
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled against his
executive orders?
I'm not expecting any followup, but what are you talking about?
First Google hit for the phrase "Obama made personal attacks on judges
who ruled against his executive orders"
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/318783-trump-is-not-the-f
irst-president-to-criticize-judiciary
I suppose the difference is that Obama didn't name names.
I forgot about Citizens United. Actually, they make Supreme Court justices
attend the State of the Union address, so Obama was addressing Roberts
directly, sitting right in the front row.
I suppose that was worse.
That seems to be the consensus. He didn't name names but he made it
clear who he was talking about, which is just sort of cowardly.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The "century of law" was true, for Citizens United found unconstitutional
a Wilson-era law, not just McCain-Feingold. I agreed with most of Citizens
United, if anyone cares, but I thought the Roberts court was wrong for
finding the Wilson-era law unconstitutional.
Post by anim8rfsk
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514587731/trumps-criticism-of-judges-out-of-lin
e-with-past-presidents
I like Nina Totenberg quite a bit. Good find.
When I saw "NPR" I assumed they'd say the exact opposite of "thehill"
and intended to include it as a responsible opposing viewpoint, but
Totenberg surprised me.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 22:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Siri Cruise
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled
against his executive orders?
I'm not expecting any followup, but what are you talking about?
First Google hit for the phrase "Obama made personal attacks on judges
who ruled against his executive orders"
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/318783-trump-is-not-the-first-president-to-criticize-judiciary
I suppose the difference is that Obama didn't name names.
I forgot about Citizens United. Actually, they make Supreme Court justices
attend the State of the Union address, so Obama was addressing Roberts
directly, sitting right in the front row.
I suppose that was worse.
That seems to be the consensus. He didn't name names but he made it
clear who he was talking about, which is just sort of cowardly.
Heh. I seem to recall he was glaring at Roberts.
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The "century of law" was true, for Citizens United found unconstitutional
a Wilson-era law, not just McCain-Feingold. I agreed with most of Citizens
United, if anyone cares, but I thought the Roberts court was wrong for
finding the Wilson-era law unconstitutional.
Post by anim8rfsk
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514587731/trumps-criticism-of-judges-out-of-line-with-past-presidents
I like Nina Totenberg quite a bit. Good find.
When I saw "NPR" I assumed they'd say the exact opposite of "thehill"
and intended to include it as a responsible opposing viewpoint, but
Totenberg surprised me.
"NPR" stands for "Nice Polite Republicans".
anim8rfsk
2017-08-28 22:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Siri Cruise
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled
against his executive orders?
I'm not expecting any followup, but what are you talking about?
First Google hit for the phrase "Obama made personal attacks on judges
who ruled against his executive orders"
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/318783-trump-is-not-the
-first-president-to-criticize-judiciary
I suppose the difference is that Obama didn't name names.
I forgot about Citizens United. Actually, they make Supreme Court justices
attend the State of the Union address, so Obama was addressing Roberts
directly, sitting right in the front row.
I suppose that was worse.
That seems to be the consensus. He didn't name names but he made it
clear who he was talking about, which is just sort of cowardly.
Heh. I seem to recall he was glaring at Roberts.
sheesh
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The "century of law" was true, for Citizens United found unconstitutional
a Wilson-era law, not just McCain-Feingold. I agreed with most of Citizens
United, if anyone cares, but I thought the Roberts court was wrong for
finding the Wilson-era law unconstitutional.
Post by anim8rfsk
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514587731/trumps-criticism-of-judges-out-of-l
ine-with-past-presidents
I like Nina Totenberg quite a bit. Good find.
When I saw "NPR" I assumed they'd say the exact opposite of "thehill"
and intended to include it as a responsible opposing viewpoint, but
Totenberg surprised me.
"NPR" stands for "Nice Polite Republicans".
:P
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
FPP
2017-08-28 22:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by trotsky
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
If the President can pardon anyone, he isn't obstructing justice he's
intervening on behalf of justice, the President can interfere with the
justice system and is Constitutionally correct to do so.
You misspelled "contravening justice". You might want to look the word
up first.
When Obama did it for Marxist Terrorist types I called him anti
American, I didn't say he was violating the constitution....
How about when Obama made personal attacks on judges who ruled against his
executive orders?
Well, if those judges were MEXICANS, it would be OK... so long as those
"Mexicans" were born in Indiana.
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Mitchell Holman
2017-08-28 18:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
TRUMP is doing it to protect America. Say what you will about the
America TRUMP is protecting but it is the one and only Constitutional
United States.
How does Trump flooding America with Trump
brand products made in Mexico and India and China
and Bangledesh amount to "protecting America"?

Even his famous MAGA hats are made in Vietnam.



Trump Inauguration hats made in Vietnam
http://tinyurl.com/gkset93
FPP
2017-08-28 22:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by trotsky
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
If the President can pardon anyone, he isn't obstructing justice he's
intervening on behalf of justice, the President can interfere with the
justice system and is Constitutionally correct to do so.
You misspelled "contravening justice". You might want to look the word
up first.
When Obama did it for Marxist Terrorist types I called him anti
American, I didn't say he was violating the constitution....
TRUMP is doing it to protect America. Say what you will about the
America TRUMP is protecting but it is the one and only Constitutional
United States.
How is violating the Constitution, and allowing racists and bigots to
trample on the rights of citizens "protecting" America, idiot?

Stopping people because they LOOK illegal (read "brown") isn't
protecting anybody?
It's violating their Constitutional rights - and a court found that to
be the case.

Good ol' Sheriff Joe then ignored a lawful order of a Judge, and took
power into his own hands that ignored the rights of American citizens.

Is that really what you're standing up for? The next sheriff's right to
stop people because they're white? Or black? Or Asian?

That's pretty much a Police State. What's next? Shooting citizens in
the back 8 times for a broken tail light?

Hmmm... let me think about that.
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
FPP
2017-08-28 22:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
If the President can pardon anyone, he isn't obstructing justice he's
intervening on behalf of justice, the President can interfere with the
justice system and is Constitutionally correct to do so.
He intervened on the part of politics, not justice.

The DOJ was never meant to be a partisan arm of the White House... but
it sure is now.
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Siri Cruise
2017-08-28 16:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.

Do tell when Clinton demanded the judge on a suit against himself should be
recused because of skin colour.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Free the Amos Yee one. This post / \
Yeah, too bad about your so-called life. Ha-ha. insults Islam. Mohammed
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 16:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.
Normally maxipad is a complete fuckwit, but he's right about this one.
That's exactly what the Lynch-Clinton meeting in Phoenix was.

Lynch should be prosecuted for that.
FPP
2017-08-28 22:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.
Normally maxipad is a complete fuckwit, but he's right about this one.
That's exactly what the Lynch-Clinton meeting in Phoenix was.
Lynch should be prosecuted for that.
Do let us know when meeting on a plane becomes illegal, OK?
Because unless you have some other kind of proof, you're just full of shit.

Last I checked, "possibility" doesn't rise to the level of prosecution.
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Mattb.
2017-08-28 22:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.
Normally maxipad is a complete fuckwit, but he's right about this one.
That's exactly what the Lynch-Clinton meeting in Phoenix was.
Lynch should be prosecuted for that.
Do let us know when meeting on a plane becomes illegal, OK?
Because unless you have some other kind of proof, you're just full of shit.
Last I checked, "possibility" doesn't rise to the level of prosecution.
Have you and did you see the level of evidence used against Trump by
the MSM. Anonymous witnesses and on the say so of this or that
person.

Don't get me wrong Trump is a total idiot but to impeach him will take
more that what they have.

As for the Pardon it is a done deal according to our constitution.
FPP
2017-08-28 23:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mattb.
Post by FPP
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.
Normally maxipad is a complete fuckwit, but he's right about this one.
That's exactly what the Lynch-Clinton meeting in Phoenix was.
Lynch should be prosecuted for that.
Do let us know when meeting on a plane becomes illegal, OK?
Because unless you have some other kind of proof, you're just full of shit.
Last I checked, "possibility" doesn't rise to the level of prosecution.
Have you and did you see the level of evidence used against Trump by
the MSM. Anonymous witnesses and on the say so of this or that
person.
They're not "anonymous" - they're just not known to YOU.
Big difference.
Post by Mattb.
Don't get me wrong Trump is a total idiot but to impeach him will take
more that what they have.
As for the Pardon it is a done deal according to our constitution.
Yup.
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
max headroom
2017-08-28 16:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.
The lack of a coherent response noted.
Post by Siri Cruise
Do tell when Clinton demanded the judge on a suit against himself should be
recused because of skin colour.
Has a president ever done that?
Siri Cruise
2017-08-28 21:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by max headroom
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.
The lack of a coherent response noted.
Post by Siri Cruise
Do tell when Clinton demanded the judge on a suit against himself should be
recused because of skin colour.
Has a president ever done that?
Are you really this stupid?
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Free the Amos Yee one. This post / \
Yeah, too bad about your so-called life. Ha-ha. insults Islam. Mohammed
max headroom
2017-08-28 22:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by max headroom
Post by FPP
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by FPP
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
Or couldn't you figure that out?
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
When the president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending case
against his buddy, what is he obstructing, if not justice?
Or when a former president tries to pressure the DOJ to drop a pending
case against his wife?
The CDS is strong in this one.
The lack of a coherent response noted.
Post by Siri Cruise
Do tell when Clinton demanded the judge on a suit against himself should be
recused because of skin colour.
Has a president ever done that?
Are you really this stupid?
If you don't have an answer, just say so. No need to emulate Rudy. It's unbecoming.
!! Atheist ------------------------------
2017-08-28 17:31:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Arpaio isn't about obstruction of justice. It's about one bigot protecting
another bigot and continue his abuse against the judiciary.
Not long ago in places like Mississippi and Alabama the justice system was
rigged so that Blacks could not get justice; it was all done "legally" like
pardons and stacking juries and stopping Blacks from registering to vote (which
kept them off of juries). Trump seeks to return us to that era.
--
There is no verifiable evidence of any god(s). None whatsoever.
Extortion (Believe or Burn) is *THE* foundation of Christianity.
Sycophant: a compulsive ass-kisser of un-evidenced dictator god.
BTR1701
2017-08-28 17:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
If pardons were subject to obstruction review, the power would be
meaningless, since every pardon and commutation acts in contravention of a
judicial order or ruling.
FPP
2017-08-28 22:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by FPP
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
If pardons were subject to obstruction review, the power would be
meaningless, since every pardon and commutation acts in contravention of a
judicial order or ruling.
It probably wouldn't invalidate the pardon, but it could get the
President impeached. If it was in he furtherance of obstructing
justice, that would rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

That's what they were going after Nixon for...
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
Rudy Canoza
2017-08-28 17:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
The pardon is almost certainly not subject to any legal challenge.

The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President
is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every
offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its
commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their
pendency, or after conviction and judgment. The power is not subject
to legislative control.

Ex parte Garland
71 U.S. 333 (1866)

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/71/333/case.html


The pardon is without question a horrible abuse of power and is entirely
politically motivated, but it is constitutional.

The pardon is an impeachable offense, but don't look for this
chickenshit Congress to do what it ought to do.
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 18:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FPP
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
The pardon is almost certainly not subject to any legal challenge.
The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President
is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every
offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its
commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their
pendency, or after conviction and judgment. The power is not subject
to legislative control.
Ex parte Garland
71 U.S. 333 (1866)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/71/333/case.html
The pardon is without question a horrible abuse of power and is entirely
politically motivated, but it is constitutional.
The pardon is an impeachable offense, but don't look for this
chickenshit Congress to do what it ought to do.
What "horrible abuse of power"? What kind of moron are you?

Lemme be the first to tell you that the Founding Fathers came up with a
system of checks and balances to keep one branch of government from
exercising too much power. Hence, an Act of Congress isn't law unless
signed by the President or, if vetoed, overridden.

In a prosecution, a President can decide that a judge failed to find for
the defendent if the prosecution lacked sufficient evidence, that allowed
the jury to be prejudiced against the defendant and failed to find
insufficient evidence for a conviction, etc.

A President can make a finding of actual innocence without finding the
law unconstitutional, which cannot be done by an appellate court. See,
an appeal can be granted on the basis of rights violations or procedural
error, but if the prosecution turned over all evidence to the defense,
if the defense was represented by adequate counsel, the judge or jury
can still act contrary to justice and send an innocent man to the gallows.

If the courts get it very very wrong, how is a presidential pardon
"a horrible abuse of power and entirely politically motivated", as opposed
to, Thank God Thank God Thank God an innocent man was freed!

You state, above, that the pardon is constitutional. You then contradict
yourself in the very next paragraph that the pardon is an impeachable offense.

No, you blithering idiot, it is not.
anim8rfsk
2017-08-28 18:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Rudy Canoza
Post by FPP
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is, counselor.
The pardon is almost certainly not subject to any legal challenge.
The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President
is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every
offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its
commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their
pendency, or after conviction and judgment. The power is not subject
to legislative control.
Ex parte Garland
71 U.S. 333 (1866)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/71/333/case.html
The pardon is without question a horrible abuse of power and is entirely
politically motivated, but it is constitutional.
The pardon is an impeachable offense, but don't look for this
chickenshit Congress to do what it ought to do.
What "horrible abuse of power"? What kind of moron are you?
Lemme be the first to tell you that the Founding Fathers came up with a
system of checks and balances to keep one branch of government from
exercising too much power. Hence, an Act of Congress isn't law unless
signed by the President or, if vetoed, overridden.
In a prosecution, a President can decide that a judge failed to find for
the defendent if the prosecution lacked sufficient evidence, that allowed
the jury to be prejudiced against the defendant and failed to find
insufficient evidence for a conviction, etc.
A President can make a finding of actual innocence without finding the
law unconstitutional, which cannot be done by an appellate court. See,
an appeal can be granted on the basis of rights violations or procedural
error, but if the prosecution turned over all evidence to the defense,
if the defense was represented by adequate counsel, the judge or jury
can still act contrary to justice and send an innocent man to the gallows.
If the courts get it very very wrong, how is a presidential pardon
"a horrible abuse of power and entirely politically motivated", as opposed
to, Thank God Thank God Thank God an innocent man was freed!
You state, above, that the pardon is constitutional. You then contradict
yourself in the very next paragraph that the pardon is an impeachable offense.
No, you blithering idiot, it is not.
Hey, apparently "I didn't vote for him" is an impeachable offense.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Just Wondering
2017-08-28 19:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is.
Before you post bullshit like that, you should educate yourself
on what obstruction of justice is.
FPP
2017-08-28 22:46:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an
opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
If he did it to obstruct justice, it sure is.
Before you post bullshit like that, you should educate yourself
on what obstruction of justice is.
Why don't you enlighten me, genius?
--
Hours after Trump says something dumb during a nuclear standoff, his
last living staffer will send a clarification to the last living
reporter. - Daniel Powell
NoBody
2017-08-28 10:26:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 03:56:38 -0500, BTR1701
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The pardon power was intended
by the Founders to give the Executive Branch a check on the Judicial
Branch. It's *meant* to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no
more inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on the
Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to use its check on
the Executive Branch by overriding a presidential veto.
You'll notice Siri is not concerned about Obama pardoning
terrorists...
Obama! Squawk
2017-08-28 13:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by NoBody
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 03:56:38 -0500, BTR1701
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
<93844815.525577625.004955.address_is-
iganews.com>,
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-
w
Post by NoBody
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
ill- the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and
warn that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The
pardon ended it. It's not appealable so there's no way the
Court would have an opportunity to rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some
unrelated case in the future, ruling against Trump as
revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well, that would make them
no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its merits
but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary
branch is under attack, and what how it might defend its
courts. If a president disobeys a court decision, the
Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted
to him by the Constitution is not an impeachable offense. The
pardon power was intended by the Founders to give the
Executive Branch a check on the Judicial Branch. It's *meant*
to be used to countermand judicial rulings. It's no more
inappropriate for the Executive Branch to use its check on
the Judicial Branch than it is for the Legislative Branch to
use its check on the Executive Branch by overriding a
presidential veto.
You'll notice Siri is not concerned about Obama pardoning
terrorists...
Or how they never impeached him when they proved he was a negro
muslim from Kenya. Why is Trump afraid to do something about
that? Dirty Canucks should stay the fuck out of our politics
discussions. Go suck Trudeau.
trotsky
2017-08-28 11:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Siri Cruise
In article
Post by BTR1701
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
Strike back against what? Arpaio's case is over. The pardon ended it. It's
not appealable so there's no way the Court would have an opportunity to
rule on it.
If the author means, "Will the Court strike back in some unrelated case in
the future, ruling against Trump as revenge for the Arpaio pardon?" well,
that would make them no better than Trump, deciding a case not on its
merits but rather for partisan political one-upsmanship.
The article is about how the Court feels the judiciary branch is under attack,
and what how it might defend its courts. If a president disobeys a court
decision, the Congress is forced to join the president in attacking the
judiciary or impeaching the president.
A president exercising a power that is specifically granted to him by the
Constitution is not an impeachable offense.
Bullshit. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is not a legal definition and
can be interpreted any way the House of Representatives want to
interpret it. Try again, counselor.
Connor
2017-08-28 03:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Not TV
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 03:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Connor
Not TV
Not TV
Ubiquitous
2017-08-28 14:27:48 UTC
Permalink
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
I cannot help but wonder if the person asking this question is
profoundly retarded or blinded by an irrational hatred of President
Trump.

A more important question, though, is
"And you posted this off-topic article here because?".
--
Dems & the media want Trump to be more like Obama, but then he'd
have to audit liberals & wire tap reporters' phones.
First-Post
2017-08-28 16:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
Though its major import is President Trump?s official
endorsement of racist discrimination in law enforcement, a
flagrant contempt for judges is the subtext.
In the wake of President Trump?s pardon of Arizona Sheriff Joe
Arpaio, reporters are likely to hear words as harsh as
?disturbed? and ?concerned? floated by anonymous leaders of the
president?s party on Capitol Hill.
There will be few if any leaks from the Supreme Court. But one
must wonder what messages the justices are getting from Trump?s
extraordinary pardon. Though its major import is Trump?s
official endorsement of racist discrimination in law
enforcement, a flagrant contempt for judges and courts is the
subtext. The issue in the Arpaio case was the very integrity of
the federal judiciary. He was not convicted of an ordinary
crime, but of deliberately disobeying a federal court order and
lying about that; but beyond that, during the litigation that
led to his conviction for criminal contempt, he hired a private
detective to investigate the wife of a federal judge hearing a
case against his office. Any judge can understand the threat
posed by law enforcement personnel who seek to strike back at
judges and their families, perhaps for purposes of blackmail or
revenge?and the deep arrogance of a president who regards such
behavior as praiseworthy.
In fact, since even before the election, Trump has brandished
his hostility to judges almost as aggressively as his disregard
of racial decency. When federal district Judge Gonzalo Curiel
was assigned the Trump University civil fraud case, Trump
attacked the Indiana-born Curiel in front of a campaign rally
as ?Mexican? and ?a total disgrace.? When Judge James Robart (a
George W. Bush appointee) of the District of Washington
enjoined the first version of Trump?s ?travel ban,? Trump on
Twitter dismissed Robart as a ?so-called judge" and told his
supporters ?If something happens blame him and court system.?
When another District Judge enjoined his ?sanctuary cities?
defunding order, Trump publicly threatened to break up the
Ninth Circuit. When a terror cell carried out a car attack in
Barcelona earlier this month, Trump immediately zeroed in on
?The courts must give us back our protective rights,? he
tweeted.
Every indication is that Trump will respond to an adverse
Supreme Court ruling on any important issue with a full-
throated assault on the court and on the very idea of judicial
independence. That the court?s majority is conservative and
Republican won?t matter. Sen. Mitch McConnell can testify to
Trump?s lack of respect for his fellow Republicans; and for
that matter so can Chief Justice John Roberts, whom Trump
dismissed during the election campaign as ?an absolute
disaster? because of his vote upholding the ?individual
mandate? portion of the Affordable Care Act.
Supreme Court justices live in a different world than most of
us. They are protected by life tenure, and swaddled in a day-
to-day environment as obsequious as the biblical court of
Nebuchadnezzar. They are rarely racially profiled at traffic
stops, set upon by chanting thugs with tiki torches, or run
over by cars at political protests. Ordinary citizens may feel
the changing winds of politics more quickly and keenly than
justices.
Yet politics, in somewhat distorted form, makes its way into
their protective cocoon sooner or later. Is it possible that
the Arpaio pardon will be the moment that the conservative
justices, or some of them, realize that this is not an ordinary
administration, and that the cases coming before them this fall
have higher than ordinary stakes?
Judges are usually expected to put aside the present political
meaning of legal issues?will this decision help my party or the
other party??and consider them under the gaze of eternity.
Administrations come and go, the theory says; decisions about
the meaning of statutes or the scope of presidential authority
may persist long after this issue has been forgotten. The issue
thus should ordinarily not be, ?Will this help or hurt Trump??
but ?In the long run, which conforms better to the wording of a
statute or the structure of the Constitution??
But what if the issue behind present cases is whether, four or
ten years hence, we will have a Constitution or a self-
governing republic at all? How clear would those stakes have to
be before the justices will decide that they may be the only
emergency brake cord in a government threatening to jump the
tracks?
History isn?t encouraging. Judges frequently like to roar from
the bench about their independence and high-mindedness; but
when it comes to true independence, these lions of the law
often turn cowardly. Times of war and emergency make them even
more timorous. The court enthusiastically backed Woodrow
Wilson?s World War I crackdown on civil liberties; it meekly
surrendered to the Japanese Internment. In two Nixon-era cases,
the court held that media outlets could publish the formerly
secret Pentagon Papers, and that Nixon had to turn over the
?smoking gun? tape to a federal court. But those decisions,
historically, are anomalous.
Much more typical is the rhetorical switcheroo played by the
court in Ziglar v. Abbasi last term. The plaintiffs in that
case were improperly documented aliens who were snatched off
the street after the 9/11 attack and held for months even
though there was no evidence linking them to terrorism. High-
ranking officials at the Department of Justice ordered them
held unlawfully, and instructed that the conditions be
?restrictive??which in practice meant solitary confinement,
beatings, and lack of sleep. Sixteen years later, they were
still seeking a chance to make their case against the higher-
ups who authorized the mistreatment. The court?s majority threw
out their case. Justice Anthony Kennedy?s opinion contained the
obligatory preen: ?Nothing in this opinion should be read to
condone the treatment to which [the plaintiffs] contend they
were subjected.? But at its heart, the opinion?s concern ran
entirely toward the powerful: the great danger would be a
decision that would ?chill the interchange and discourse that
is necessary for the adoption and implementation of
governmental policies.?
Trump has made it clear that the limits of the law, and the
powers of the courts, hold no weight in his decision-making,
and indeed will be brushed aside at his convenience.
If the Ziglar opinion is defensible at all (in case it?s not
obvious, I side with Justice Stephen Breyer, along with Justice
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who dissented), it is defensible as an
exercise of that ?what if?? vision I mentioned above. That is,
assuming the republic survives, should future executive
officials have to worry about being sued when they make
emergency decisions?
But increasingly, the question for the court?as for Congress,
and for the country?is whether the republic survives not
against external threat but against an unprecedented
unremitting internal assault. A sense of proportion is
necessary in crisis and calm; and even in the midst of shocking
official misbehavior, the Arpaio pardon crosses a line. Trump
has made it clear that the limits of the law, and the powers of
the courts, hold no weight in his decision-making, and indeed
will be brushed aside at his convenience.
Will the justices strike back, or shake a feeble fist and warn
that they'll really do something one of these days?
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 16:45:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by First-Post
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Duh.

There's nothing to pardon if the individual wasn't convicted in the first
place. There's no sentence to commute if the individual wasn't sentenced
after conviction.

If there's a finding of not guilty, there's nothing for the president
to pardon.

Idiot.

I've never heard of a presidential pardon for a misdomeanor conviction.
Is this a first?
BTR1701
2017-08-28 17:25:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by First-Post
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Duh.
There's nothing to pardon if the individual wasn't convicted in the first
place.
Ford introduced the preemptive pardon to our legal lexicon.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've never heard of a presidential pardon for a misdomeanor conviction.
Is this a first?
As long as it's a federal offense misdemeanor vs felony doesn't matter.
m***@hotmail.com
2017-08-28 17:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by First-Post
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Duh.
There's nothing to pardon if the individual wasn't convicted in the first
place.
Ford introduced the preemptive pardon to our legal lexicon.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've never heard of a presidential pardon for a misdomeanor conviction.
Is this a first?
As long as it's a federal offense misdemeanor vs felony doesn't matter.
I have no idea what that sentence means.
m***@hotmail.com
2017-08-28 18:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by BTR1701
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That is (de facto) the executive branch ignoring the orders of the
judicial branch.
That was the intent of the Founders when they wrote in the pardon power: to
give the Executive Branch the power to nullify orders and rulings of the
Judicial Branch with regard to criminal defendants. It's a feature, not a
bug.
But when the President ignores a judicial order merely because he
doesn't like it, that's an abuse of the pardon power.
Let's say an abortion clinic kicked out a pro-life protestor from the
sidewalk in front of the clinic (SCOTUS has held that such protests are
protected speech). In response, a judge ordered the clinic to stop
kicking out the protestors and when the clinic refused, held the clinic
owner in contempt of court. The President pardons the clinic owner just
before they are to be sentenced for the contempt violation. Are you OK
with that, or do you agree with me and believe that is an abuse of the
pardon power?
" ... The Office of Risk Management's, as well as the U.S. Department of Justice's) revealed that close to 160 people have died in Arpaio's jails.

But that is an estimate, because the truth is that no outside authority keeps track of how many people die from brutality, neglect, disease, bad health, or old age in Arpaio's jails.

Federal Judge Neil Wake twice has ruled that medical care is so deficient in the jails as to be "unconstitutional."

The Department of Justice supposedly monitors conditions in the jails but has shown little or no appetite for confronting Arpaio.

Arpaio is accused of: "keeping thousands of inmates outdoors in repurposed military tents in weather that was hotter than 117 degrees. He also made male inmates wear pink underwear.

He banned smoking, coffee and movies in all jails. And he's even put his stamp on mealtime. Inmates are fed only twice a day, and he stopped serving salt and pepper – all to save taxpayers money"

(Phoenix New Times and USAToday)
BTR1701
2017-08-28 21:48:28 UTC
Permalink
Arpaio made male inmates wear pink underwear. He banned smoking, coffee
and movies in all jails. And he's even put his stamp on mealtime. Inmates
are fed only twice a day, and he stopped serving salt and pepper.
I have no problem with any of that. Prison isn't supposed to be fun or
comfortable.

Of all the crap Arpaio pulled, focusing on the color of inmates' underwear
(as if there's a constitutional right to manly-colored underwear that was
being violated) doesn't help your case at all.
anim8rfsk
2017-08-28 22:38:20 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by BTR1701
,
Arpaio made male inmates wear pink underwear. He banned smoking, coffee
and movies in all jails. And he's even put his stamp on mealtime. Inmates
are fed only twice a day, and he stopped serving salt and pepper.
I have no problem with any of that. Prison isn't supposed to be fun or
comfortable.
Of all the crap Arpaio pulled, focusing on the color of inmates' underwear
(as if there's a constitutional right to manly-colored underwear that was
being violated) doesn't help your case at all.
The idea was, if you ran off from a work detail, you'd be easy to spot,
even if you dumped your outerwear. It's not like he singled out certain
prisoners to wear pink as punishment or something.

I've never read if there were exceptions for dietary requirements (for
instance, I couldn't have bologna sandwiches) but I assume there were.

Tough shit if they don't get to smoke. Who the Hell gets to smoke in
any other government facility? You can't even smoke inside in my office
building (which is really obnoxious because they smoke outside by our
doors and windows).

So they don't get movies. They get educational TV. I thought liberals
were supposed to want people to watch PBS.

They were spending $20,000 a year on salt and pepper. He decided they
could spend that money better elsewhere. And who needs to salt and
pepper bologna sandwiches?

He even gets blamed for it being 122° outside, like he's got some
control over that.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.washingtonexaminer.biz/web-producers/JoeA
rpaio/pix/20140320_154332.jpg
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
BTR1701
2017-08-28 21:48:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by First-Post
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Duh.
There's nothing to pardon if the individual wasn't convicted in the first
place.
Ford introduced the preemptive pardon to our legal lexicon.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've never heard of a presidential pardon for a misdomeanor conviction.
Is this a first?
As long as it's a federal offense misdemeanor vs felony doesn't matter.
I have no idea what that sentence means.
Try not to advertise your stupidity so blatantly.
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 17:50:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by First-Post
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Duh.
There's nothing to pardon if the individual wasn't convicted in the first
place.
Ford introduced the preemptive pardon to our legal lexicon.
That seemed exceptional. Is that the only example? I remember wondering
about it at the time.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've never heard of a presidential pardon for a misdomeanor conviction.
Is this a first?
As long as it's a federal offense misdemeanor vs felony doesn't matter.
Yes, the constitution doesn't prohibit pardoning misdemeanor convictions.
I wondered if there were any others.
BTR1701
2017-08-28 21:48:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by First-Post
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Duh.
There's nothing to pardon if the individual wasn't convicted in the first
place.
Ford introduced the preemptive pardon to our legal lexicon.
That seemed exceptional. Is that the only example? I remember wondering
about it at the time.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've never heard of a presidential pardon for a misdomeanor conviction.
Is this a first?
As long as it's a federal offense misdemeanor vs felony doesn't matter.
Yes, the constitution doesn't prohibit pardoning misdemeanor convictions.
I wondered if there were any others.
I'm sure there have been. Obama pardoned 1,715 criminals during his time as
president (the most in US history). It's likely some of them were
misdemeanors.
Adam H. Kerman
2017-08-28 22:12:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by First-Post
You complete hypocrites cheered for Obama when he pardoned or commuted
nearly 2000 FELONS but now you think it's the end of the world because
one individual was pardoned for a misdemeanor.
Can you be any more stupid?
Duh.
There's nothing to pardon if the individual wasn't convicted in the first
place.
Ford introduced the preemptive pardon to our legal lexicon.
That seemed exceptional. Is that the only example? I remember wondering
about it at the time.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've never heard of a presidential pardon for a misdomeanor conviction.
Is this a first?
As long as it's a federal offense misdemeanor vs felony doesn't matter.
Yes, the constitution doesn't prohibit pardoning misdemeanor convictions.
I wondered if there were any others.
I'm sure there have been. Obama pardoned 1,715 criminals during his time as
president (the most in US history). It's likely some of them were
misdemeanors.
When you gave that number of pardons, are you talking about both pardons
and commutations, or just pardons?

The commutations and pardons for drug-related offenses didn't bother me
in the least. We lock up outrageous numbers of people for drug-related
offenses, particularly under federal law. Much of that shouldn't be illegal.

I didn't agree with some commutations and pardons for certain people who
had committed violent offense and I didn't necessarily think their crimes
were mitigated by age at the time of offense.
duke
2017-08-28 22:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by G C
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/how-will-
the-courts-respond-to-the-arpaio-pardon/538137/
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon?
It's a done deal.

the dukester, American-American


*****
Purpose of Life: To Know, love and serve God and to love your
neighbor as yourself and thus be happy with God in heaven.
*****
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