Discussion:
Lesbians that fit into the story line
(too old to reply)
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 06:18:01 UTC
Permalink
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.

Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.

There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 06:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Ian J. Ball
2019-06-27 13:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/


Ian (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
--
"Three light sabers? Is that overkill? Or just the right amount
of "kill"?" - M-OC, "A Perilous Rescue" (ep. #2.9), LSW:TFA (08-10-2017)
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 15:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
anim: Ian is correct here. They're definitely in a category I didn't
list, Sudden-Onset-Network-Note-Lesbianism.
Post by Ian J. Ball
Ian (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 15:48:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
anim: Ian is correct here. They're definitely in a category I didn't
list, Sudden-Onset-Network-Note-Lesbianism.
Post by Ian J. Ball
Ian (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
I stand behind Willow's vampire doppelgänger, who was 'skanky and kind of
gay'
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 15:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
Ian (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
Willow's doppelgänger was gay. That was a pretty big hint, early on.

Buffy's jumping the shark episode is 'Dracula' where Marti Noxious ruined the
series in several ways.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Ian J. Ball
2019-06-27 15:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
Ian (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
Willow's doppelgänger was gay. That was a pretty big hint, early on.
Buffy's jumping the shark episode is 'Dracula' where Marti Noxious
ruined the series in several ways.
Nope - it was before that, circa episode #7 of season #4 (when they
walked away from the strict "monsters as analogies for real-life
issues" premise of the series...).
--
"Three light sabers? Is that overkill? Or just the right amount
of "kill"?" - M-OC, "A Perilous Rescue" (ep. #2.9), LSW:TFA (08-10-2017)
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 15:55:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
Ian (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
Willow's doppelgänger was gay. That was a pretty big hint, early on.
Buffy's jumping the shark episode is 'Dracula' where Marti Noxious
ruined the series in several ways.
Nope - it was before that, circa episode #7 of season #4 (when they
walked away from the strict "monsters as analogies for real-life
issues" premise of the series...).
What, The Initiative?
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Ian J. Ball
2019-06-27 16:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
Ian (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
Willow's doppelgänger was gay. That was a pretty big hint, early on.
Buffy's jumping the shark episode is 'Dracula' where Marti Noxious
ruined the series in several ways.
Nope - it was before that, circa episode #7 of season #4 (when they
walked away from the strict "monsters as analogies for real-life
issues" premise of the series...).
What, The Initiative?
Yes, in fact, The Initiative is exactly what I point to for when the
show truly went off the rails and never recovered.
--
"Three light sabers? Is that overkill? Or just the right amount
of "kill"?" - M-OC, "A Perilous Rescue" (ep. #2.9), LSW:TFA (08-10-2017)
Ubiquitous
2019-06-27 17:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
I have gaps in my viewing of reruns, but I thought it started when Willow's
vampire doppleganger showed up in their universe?

--
Watching Democrats come up with schemes to "catch Trump" is like
watching Wile E. Coyote trying to catch Road Runner.
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 18:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character... >:/
I have gaps in my viewing of reruns, but I thought it started when Willow's
vampire doppleganger showed up in their universe?
Actually Cordy went to Gay Vampire Willow's universe first.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Ubiquitous
2019-06-27 22:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character...>:/
I have gaps in my viewing of reruns, but I thought it started when
Willow's vampire doppleganger showed up in their universe?
Actually Cordy went to Gay Vampire Willow's universe first.
But our Willow never met her in that ep.
When they did meet, they rubbed off on each other a little.

--
Watching Democrats come up with schemes to "catch Trump" is like
watching Wile E. Coyote trying to catch Road Runner.
David Johnston
2019-06-28 16:09:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character...>:/
I have gaps in my viewing of reruns, but I thought it started when
Willow's vampire doppleganger showed up in their universe?
Actually Cordy went to Gay Vampire Willow's universe first.
But our Willow never met her in that ep.
When they did meet, they rubbed off on each other a little.
Heh. Rubbed.
David Johnston
2019-06-28 15:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
I'm sure you're joking, but this is absolutely a "No", and clearly came
out of left-field, most likely due to that idiot Whedon thinking it was
"cool", and not at-all thinking about what had already been established
about the character...  >:/
<shrug> Maybe Willow was bi and just declaring herself to be lesbian to
deny Tara's fears that she wasn't committed to the relationship. But
you can hardly say that Willow's involvement with a lesbian wasn't
important to the story.
Post by Ian J. Ball
Ian  (Coincidentally (or more likely, not!), this development also
marked the beginning of the end of "Buffy" as a "good" TV show.)
RichA
2019-07-12 03:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
Willow and Tara on Buffy? (hee hee, I said 'Willow and Tara on Buffy')
Lets just say it didn't play right. Willow had a relationship with a man who dun her wrong then switched sides?
Ubiquitous
2019-06-27 14:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female leads was
fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" for no apparent
reason.


--
Watching Democrats come up with schemes to "catch Trump" is like
watching Wile E. Coyote trying to catch Road Runner.
Bill Idgerant
2019-06-27 15:06:03 UTC
Permalink
On 2019-06-27 8:29 a.m., Ubiquitous wrote:
( )
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female leads was
fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" for no apparent
reason.
--
Watching Democrats come up with schemes to "catch Trump" is like
watching Wile E. Coyote trying to catch Road Runner.
I seem to recall that happened in one of the countless L & O
series...Kelli Giddish maybe...
--
Bill Idgerant
(Not a real person)

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 16:47:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Idgerant
( )
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female leads was
fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" for no apparent
reason.
I seem to recall that happened in one of the countless L & O
series...
Elisabeth Rohm as ADA Southerlyn, no first name. Much later in the
season, her first name was retconned as Serena. In the final episode's
final scene when she was fired, she irrelevantly questioned her boss if
she were fired for being a lesbian. The producers then pointed out all
the hints they'd given about her nothing character throughout the
season.

No, she was fired because the writers weren't writing anything
legitimate for her to do in any scene. It wasn't her fault. We'd liked
her in other series, say Angel the previous season.
Post by Bill Idgerant
Kelli Giddish maybe...
She's on L&O:SVU.
Post by Bill Idgerant
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Bill! Please turn the advertisement off! You shouldn't use that virus
checker, given that it's too broken to understand that this isn't an
email message anyway.
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 17:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Lesbians that fit into the story line
June 27, 2019 at 9:47:36 AM MST
( )
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female leads was
fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" for no apparent
reason.
I seem to recall that happened in one of the countless L & O
series...
Elisabeth Rohm as ADA Southerlyn, no first name. Much later in the
season, her first name was retconned as Serena. In the final episode's
final scene when she was fired, she irrelevantly questioned her boss if
she were fired for being a lesbian. The producers then pointed out all
the hints they'd given about her nothing character throughout the
season.
No, she was fired because the writers weren't writing anything
legitimate for her to do in any scene. It wasn't her fault. We'd liked
her in other series, say Angel the previous season.
Yeah, I missed her on Angel, but her exit was planned far in advance, same as
Doyle's.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 19:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Bill Idgerant
( )
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the
female leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a
lesbian?" for no apparent reason.
I seem to recall that happened in one of the countless L & O
series...
Elisabeth Rohm as ADA Southerlyn, no first name. Much later in the
season, her first name was retconned as Serena. In the final episode's
final scene when she was fired, she irrelevantly questioned her boss if
she were fired for being a lesbian. The producers then pointed out all
the hints they'd given about her nothing character throughout the
season.
No, she was fired because the writers weren't writing anything
legitimate for her to do in any scene. It wasn't her fault. We'd liked
her in other series, say Angel the previous season.
Yeah, I missed her on Angel, but her exit was planned far in advance, same as
Doyle's.
I assume you don't mean her exit from L&O, right? As far as Doyle, I
thought it was revealed years later that the actor wasn't sober.
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 21:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
( )
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the
female leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a
lesbian?" for no apparent reason.
I seem to recall that happened in one of the countless L & O
series...
Elisabeth Rohm as ADA Southerlyn, no first name. Much later in the
season, her first name was retconned as Serena. In the final episode's
final scene when she was fired, she irrelevantly questioned her boss if
she were fired for being a lesbian. The producers then pointed out all
the hints they'd given about her nothing character throughout the
season.
No, she was fired because the writers weren't writing anything
legitimate for her to do in any scene. It wasn't her fault. We'd liked
her in other series, say Angel the previous season.
Yeah, I missed her on Angel, but her exit was planned far in advance, same as
Doyle's.
I assume you don't mean her exit from L&O, right? As far as Doyle, I
thought it was revealed years later that the actor wasn't sober.
Shhhh, I'm poking Ian
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 21:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
( )
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the
female leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a
lesbian?" for no apparent reason.
I seem to recall that happened in one of the countless L & O
series...
Elisabeth Rohm as ADA Southerlyn, no first name. Much later in the
season, her first name was retconned as Serena. In the final episode's
final scene when she was fired, she irrelevantly questioned her boss if
she were fired for being a lesbian. The producers then pointed out all
the hints they'd given about her nothing character throughout the
season.
No, she was fired because the writers weren't writing anything
legitimate for her to do in any scene. It wasn't her fault. We'd liked
her in other series, say Angel the previous season.
Yeah, I missed her on Angel, but her exit was planned far in advance, same as
Doyle's.
I assume you don't mean her exit from L&O, right? As far as Doyle, I
thought it was revealed years later that the actor wasn't sober.
Shhhh, I'm poking Ian
Carry on
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 15:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female leads was
fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" for no apparent
reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Ian J. Ball
2019-06-27 15:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
--
"Three light sabers? Is that overkill? Or just the right amount
of "kill"?" - M-OC, "A Perilous Rescue" (ep. #2.9), LSW:TFA (08-10-2017)
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 16:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
It's not McCoy, it's Fred Dalton Thompson as Arthur Branch

Serena deserved to be fired; like Robinette, she was more at home defending
the guilty.

But at least she was way way way way WAY cuter than her replacement!
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 16:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
It's not McCoy, it's Fred Dalton Thompson as Arthur Branch
Serena deserved to be fired; like Robinette, she was more at home defending
the guilty.
She was there to take up space in a scene and not contribute to any plot
developments!
Post by anim8rfsk
But at least she was way way way way WAY cuter than her replacement!
BTR1701
2019-06-27 17:10:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
It's not McCoy, it's Fred Dalton Thompson as Arthur Branch
Serena deserved to be fired; like Robinette, she was more at home defending
the guilty.
But at least she was way way way way WAY cuter than her replacement!
None of them held a candle to Abbie "Why Can't We Just Execute Him?"
Carmichael!
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 17:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
It's not McCoy, it's Fred Dalton Thompson as Arthur Branch
Serena deserved to be fired; like Robinette, she was more at home defending
the guilty.
But at least she was way way way way WAY cuter than her replacement!
None of them held a candle to Abbie "Why Can't We Just Execute Him?"
Carmichael!
Agreed, she's my favorite, with Boobyrosa a close second.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 19:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
It's not McCoy, it's Fred Dalton Thompson as Arthur Branch
Serena deserved to be fired; like Robinette, she was more at home defending
the guilty.
But at least she was way way way way WAY cuter than her replacement!
None of them held a candle to Abbie "Why Can't We Just Execute Him?"
Carmichael!
She was great fun, but scripts were pretty lousy during that period.

fwiw, I really liked Carey Lowell as Jamie Ross, the previous one, but
it wasn't much of a character, of course.

I had to laff reading that Angie Harmon objected to the show's writing,
in which her character wasn't allowed to grow. She was hired for season
9. She must have noticed that not a single regular character had ever
shown any character growth, that they were just incidental to the plot.
The show was 100% formula driven.
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 21:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
It's not McCoy, it's Fred Dalton Thompson as Arthur Branch
Serena deserved to be fired; like Robinette, she was more at home defending
the guilty.
But at least she was way way way way WAY cuter than her replacement!
None of them held a candle to Abbie "Why Can't We Just Execute Him?"
Carmichael!
She was great fun, but scripts were pretty lousy during that period.
fwiw, I really liked Carey Lowell as Jamie Ross, the previous one, but
it wasn't much of a character, of course.
I had to laff reading that Angie Harmon objected to the show's writing,
in which her character wasn't allowed to grow. She was hired for season
9. She must have noticed that not a single regular character had ever
shown any character growth, that they were just incidental to the plot.
The show was 100% formula driven.
IMHO, letting characters 'grow' was the biggest mistake L&O made. I had no
interest in watching LT in her doctor's waiting room, or hearing about her
bogus lawsuit against the department.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 21:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes,
that was a WTF
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
It's not McCoy, it's Fred Dalton Thompson as Arthur Branch
Serena deserved to be fired; like Robinette, she was more at home
defending
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
the guilty.
But at least she was way way way way WAY cuter than her replacement!
None of them held a candle to Abbie "Why Can't We Just Execute Him?"
Carmichael!
She was great fun, but scripts were pretty lousy during that period.
fwiw, I really liked Carey Lowell as Jamie Ross, the previous one, but
it wasn't much of a character, of course.
I had to laff reading that Angie Harmon objected to the show's writing,
in which her character wasn't allowed to grow. She was hired for season
9. She must have noticed that not a single regular character had ever
shown any character growth, that they were just incidental to the plot.
The show was 100% formula driven.
IMHO, letting characters 'grow' was the biggest mistake L&O made. I had no
interest in watching LT in her doctor's waiting room, or hearing about her
bogus lawsuit against the department.
I agree.
Ubiquitous
2019-06-27 17:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian J. Ball
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
I sense a BIG lawsuit!

Seriously, what in the Wild Wild World of Sports kind of question is that?
No way someone would admit it if it were, and knowing that, why would you
believe a "no" answer?

--
Watching Democrats come up with schemes to "catch Trump" is like
watching Wile E. Coyote trying to catch Road Runner.
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 18:42:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
I sense a BIG lawsuit!
Seriously, what in the Wild Wild World of Sports kind of question is that?
No way someone would admit it if it were, and knowing that, why would you
believe a "no" answer?
It made me lose all respect for the character, who had been misbehaving like
she *wanted* to lose her job.

Plus it meant she definitely wasn't going to go out with me.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 19:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
I sense a BIG lawsuit!
Seriously, what in the Wild Wild World of Sports kind of question is that?
No way someone would admit it if it were, and knowing that, why would you
believe a "no" answer?
It made me lose all respect for the character, who had been misbehaving like
she *wanted* to lose her job.
It's not possible to lose respect for a character that wasn't fully
drawn, whose first name and lesbianism were both afterthoughts on the
part of writers who felt guilty for not having done anything with her
the whole time she was on the show. It's like saying you lost respect
for Lauren Cruz. Yeah, I had to look it up as for exactly the reasons
we're discussing, I forgot the name!
Post by anim8rfsk
Plus it meant she definitely wasn't going to go out with me.
Why couldn't you lust for Kate Lockley instead?
anim8rfsk
2019-06-27 21:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
I sense a BIG lawsuit!
Seriously, what in the Wild Wild World of Sports kind of question is that?
No way someone would admit it if it were, and knowing that, why would you
believe a "no" answer?
It made me lose all respect for the character, who had been misbehaving like
she *wanted* to lose her job.
It's not possible to lose respect for a character that wasn't fully
drawn, whose first name and lesbianism were both afterthoughts on the
part of writers who felt guilty for not having done anything with her
the whole time she was on the show. It's like saying you lost respect
for Lauren Cruz. Yeah, I had to look it up as for exactly the reasons
we're discussing, I forgot the name!
As much as I loved her before you made her hate me, I always preferred Diana
Barrigan. Ironically, they shoehorned being a lesbian into Diana's character,
and Lauren shoehorns it into her real life, every tweet, and requires it of
her characters.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Plus it meant she definitely wasn't going to go out with me.
Why couldn't you lust for Kate Lockley instead?
Because I knew she was doomed to leave, planned from the start of the series,
just like Doyle. Plus, she had major daddy issues.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 21:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law & Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes,
that was a WTF
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by anim8rfsk
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!! ;p
I sense a BIG lawsuit!
Seriously, what in the Wild Wild World of Sports kind of question is that?
No way someone would admit it if it were, and knowing that, why would you
believe a "no" answer?
It made me lose all respect for the character, who had been misbehaving like
she *wanted* to lose her job.
It's not possible to lose respect for a character that wasn't fully
drawn, whose first name and lesbianism were both afterthoughts on the
part of writers who felt guilty for not having done anything with her
the whole time she was on the show. It's like saying you lost respect
for Lauren Cruz. Yeah, I had to look it up as for exactly the reasons
we're discussing, I forgot the name!
As much as I loved her before you made her hate me, I always preferred Diana
Barrigan. Ironically, they shoehorned being a lesbian into Diana's character,
and Lauren shoehorns it into her real life, every tweet, and requires it of
her characters.
But of course you did. Marsha Thomason made the character appealing in
the pilot episode. The network forced the production to not hire her for
season 1, then the writers sabotaged the replacement character. That
created the opportunity to hire Thomason back for season 2.

I'm just saying you can't lose respect for a character who is barely there.
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
David Johnston
2019-06-28 16:16:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female
leads was fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?"
for no apparent reason.
Law &  Order Prime. Serena (the one blonde ADA). And, yes, that was a WTF
moment.
McCoy should have answered "Yes!" just to f**k with her!!  ;p
I'm sure that he would have enjoyed the resulting unwinnable lawsuit.
David Johnston
2019-06-28 16:15:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
I remember there was a crime procedural in which one of the female leads was
fired, to which she asked "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" for no apparent
reason.
That happened because the actress thought it was weird that (in a
previous episode) her character was so upset that McCoy was getting the
court to deny the validity of a gay marriage to invalidate spousal
privilege and decided her character had a personal issue with it instead
of just being a liberal.
Robin Miller
2019-06-27 18:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to justify
their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or gay the
same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?

I am sick and tired of all the casual bigotry in this NG. Including from
people I consider friends of a sort.

I don't even read this shit anymore because I know I could not continue
here if I did. I made an exception for this one.

--Robin
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-27 19:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to justify
their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or gay the
same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
We have plenty of characters whose purpose in a plot or story line has
nothing to do with the sexuality of the character, and there's no reason
to make an assumption one way or the other. Supporting characters may
not be fully drawn and the actor may not attempt to add anything that's
not in script.

If the character's sexuality isn't an issue and it's not given in the
performance, we just don't have to assume.
Post by Robin Miller
I am sick and tired of all the casual bigotry in this NG. Including from
people I consider friends of a sort.
I don't even read this shit anymore because I know I could not continue
here if I did. I made an exception for this one.
I'm saying that Jess is the first character I've noticed who wasn't
there to "be the [whatever characteristic we need]" character.

I'm saying, flat out, that we see lesbian characters on television who are
token characters. Tv writers and producers have been truly condescending
on this matter. In the Dark has been an exception. I like the character
and the performance, and given Murphy's extreme immaturity, the Jess
character makes the episodes more watchable.

I wasn't expecting you to disagree. I apologize if this came off as if
I were singling you out, for that wasn't my intent. I was thinking about
tv characters, only, not real life. I found the Maia character appalling
on a show that wasn't entertaining me.
Barry Margolin
2019-06-28 15:39:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to justify
their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or gay the
same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
Thank you, I was thinking the same thing.

I think what they find disturbing is that the percentage of gay
characters on TV is probably more than the number in real life, so it
seems like pandering to a "diversity" checklist.

But I see it differently. Real life is pretty boring, and probably one
of the reasons is that we're so homogeneous. Mixing it up on TV makes
things more interesting. It's not really much different from the way cop
shows take liberties with timelines and technology in the investigative
process -- it wouldn't be any fun to watch a realistic investigation
(DNA results take weeks or months, if they come at all).
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-28 16:47:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Margolin
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to justify
their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or gay the
same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
Thank you, I was thinking the same thing.
I think what they find disturbing is that the percentage of gay
characters on TV is probably more than the number in real life, so it
seems like pandering to a "diversity" checklist.
Ah. I haven't been lamed by Margolin in a long time. He's kill filed me,
you know, and therefore always ignores me on Usenet, except when he lies
about it.

My objection is to the character who has probably been changed to fill a
slot that the network demands. Because Margolin lacks any reading
ability and is determined to attack without making a valid argument, he
sets up a straw man and sets up "percentage" as a straw man.

I didn't comment on "percentage" in any way, and that wasn't my
complaint. I gave an example of one character that I thought was very
well written, and another character who they made as obvious as possible
was the slot filler because her sexuality wasn't part of the story, just
a random reassignment.

Again, because Margolin lacks any reading comprehension ability, he
changes it to "gay" when I was clearly saying "lesbian".
Post by Barry Margolin
But I see it differently. Real life is pretty boring, and probably one
of the reasons is that we're so homogeneous. Mixing it up on TV makes
things more interesting. It's not really much different from the way cop
shows take liberties with timelines and technology in the investigative
process -- it wouldn't be any fun to watch a realistic investigation
(DNA results take weeks or months, if they come at all).
Wow, that's almost as unparseable as moviePig English, but Margolin is
still wrong. We don't need to mix character traits up on tv like a
witness describing a perpetrator using an IdentiKit, or swapping body
parts on a Mr. Potatohead toy.

No, I'm making the argument that we need more fully-drawn better written
characters. Sexuality of the character shouldn't be a fungible trait per
note from the network.

Margolin will pretend not to read this, and then will pretend to attack
an unnamed third party in his next poorly-argued followup setting up a
different straw man.
David Johnston
2019-06-28 16:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to justify
their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or gay the
same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
Or so we assume in the cases where they don't have an onscreen lovelife.
Adam H. Kerman
2019-06-28 16:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to justify
their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or gay the
same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
Or so we assume in the cases where they don't have an onscreen lovelife.
That was part of the point I made in followup to Robin, that if the
character's sexual characteristics aren't part of the story, there's
no reason to assume the writer created a character with specific sexual
characteristics. The vast majority of characters just aren't fully drawn,
and that includes a whole lot of main characters.
Micky DuPree
2019-07-12 03:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as
more than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in
which she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then
killed the relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit
into the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to
justify their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or
gay the same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
Amen. It's the Central Casting mentality, that the default character
is a straight white male unless there's some plot reason that forces a
character to be something else. But part of equity is sheer
representation, even if that means that there ought to be
proportionately as many mediocre LGBTQ characters/plot lines as there
are mediocre cis-het characters/plot lines.

The same way one shouldn't have to justify making a random crowd scene
1:1 male:female (when Hollywood typically makes it somewhere between 5:1
and 2:1), one shouldn't have to justify a significant other that is
same-sex unless same-sex relationships were truly crowding out the
opposite-sex relationships, which is hardly the case. I know some
people out there like to whinge every time they see an LGBTQ character,
claiming that they're taking over, but they're not bothering to count up
the multitudes of cis-het characters that are out there for comparison.

In the specific case of _The Good Fight_, which I'm catching up on via
CBS broadcast, the lesbian S.O. isn't that interesting, but none of the
romantic relationships in that universe are all that engrossing.
(There's a straight couple that's actually a bit repulsive in their head
games, and they have a professional conflict of interest to boot.)
I suspect the way the plot is going, it's going to be relevant that the
lesbian semi-main character has an S.O. at all only so that a different
plot line can split them up. Why can't lesbian lovers be throwaway
characters just like straight lovers can?
Post by Robin Miller
I am sick and tired of all the casual bigotry in this NG. Including
from people I consider friends of a sort.
If someone can't type two paragraphs without running down either a
real-world woman or else some fictitious fantasy female, that's on them.
If you keep reading them, though, you might want to ask yourself why.
Post by Robin Miller
I don't even read this shit anymore because I know I could not
continue here if I did. I made an exception for this one.
Killfiles let you custom-tailor your Usenet experience. And bravo for
speaking out.

-Micky
Adam H. Kerman
2019-07-12 04:10:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Micky DuPree
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as
more than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in
which she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then
killed the relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit
into the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to
justify their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or
gay the same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
Amen. It's the Central Casting mentality, that the default character
is a straight white male unless there's some plot reason that forces a
character to be something else. But part of equity is sheer
representation, even if that means that there ought to be
proportionately as many mediocre LGBTQ characters/plot lines as there
are mediocre cis-het characters/plot lines.
The same way one shouldn't have to justify making a random crowd scene
1:1 male:female (when Hollywood typically makes it somewhere between 5:1
and 2:1), one shouldn't have to justify a significant other that is
same-sex unless same-sex relationships were truly crowding out the
opposite-sex relationships, which is hardly the case. I know some
people out there like to whinge every time they see an LGBTQ character,
claiming that they're taking over, but they're not bothering to count up
the multitudes of cis-het characters that are out there for comparison.
In the specific case of _The Good Fight_, which I'm catching up on via
CBS broadcast, the lesbian S.O. isn't that interesting, but none of the
romantic relationships in that universe are all that engrossing.
(There's a straight couple that's actually a bit repulsive in their head
games, and they have a professional conflict of interest to boot.)
I suspect the way the plot is going, it's going to be relevant that the
lesbian semi-main character has an S.O. at all only so that a different
plot line can split them up. Why can't lesbian lovers be throwaway
characters just like straight lovers can?
Post by Robin Miller
I am sick and tired of all the casual bigotry in this NG. Including
from people I consider friends of a sort.
If someone can't type two paragraphs without running down either a
real-world woman or else some fictitious fantasy female, that's on them.
If you keep reading them, though, you might want to ask yourself why.
You "ran down" the significant other of the very character that I
criticized. You said she "isn't that interesting". But it was in your
third paragraph and not your second paragraph, so I guess that's ok.

I just want well-written characters. Jess was well written, making her
pretty unique on television, so unique that no one else could come up
with another example.
Post by Micky DuPree
Post by Robin Miller
I don't even read this shit anymore because I know I could not
continue here if I did. I made an exception for this one.
Killfiles let you custom-tailor your Usenet experience. And bravo for
speaking out.
You had the same criticism I had about the same show, so you've just
advised Robin to plonk you. Brilliant.
Robin Miller
2019-07-12 04:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Micky DuPree
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as
more than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in
which she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then
killed the relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit
into the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to
justify their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or
gay the same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
Amen. It's the Central Casting mentality, that the default character
is a straight white male unless there's some plot reason that forces a
character to be something else. But part of equity is sheer
representation, even if that means that there ought to be
proportionately as many mediocre LGBTQ characters/plot lines as there
are mediocre cis-het characters/plot lines.
The same way one shouldn't have to justify making a random crowd scene
1:1 male:female (when Hollywood typically makes it somewhere between 5:1
and 2:1), one shouldn't have to justify a significant other that is
same-sex unless same-sex relationships were truly crowding out the
opposite-sex relationships, which is hardly the case. I know some
people out there like to whinge every time they see an LGBTQ character,
claiming that they're taking over, but they're not bothering to count up
the multitudes of cis-het characters that are out there for comparison.
In the specific case of _The Good Fight_, which I'm catching up on via
CBS broadcast, the lesbian S.O. isn't that interesting, but none of the
romantic relationships in that universe are all that engrossing.
(There's a straight couple that's actually a bit repulsive in their head
games, and they have a professional conflict of interest to boot.)
I suspect the way the plot is going, it's going to be relevant that the
lesbian semi-main character has an S.O. at all only so that a different
plot line can split them up. Why can't lesbian lovers be throwaway
characters just like straight lovers can?
Post by Robin Miller
I am sick and tired of all the casual bigotry in this NG. Including
from people I consider friends of a sort.
If someone can't type two paragraphs without running down either a
real-world woman or else some fictitious fantasy female, that's on them.
If you keep reading them, though, you might want to ask yourself why.
Post by Robin Miller
I don't even read this shit anymore because I know I could not
continue here if I did. I made an exception for this one.
Killfiles let you custom-tailor your Usenet experience. And bravo for
speaking out.
-Micky
I allow myself one rant a year, so I have to use it wisely.

:-)

--Robin
Micky DuPree
2019-07-12 04:42:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Miller
And bravo for speaking out.
I allow myself one rant a year, so I have to use it wisely.
:-)
It was a good one. ;-)

-Micky
moviePig
2019-07-12 14:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Miller
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
This is bullshit. Why do lesbian or gay male characters have to "fit"
into the storyline any more than heterosexual characters have to justify
their straightness? Why can't characters simply be lesbian or gay the
same way that 95% of TV characters are straight?
I am sick and tired of all the casual bigotry in this NG. Including from
people I consider friends of a sort.
I don't even read this shit anymore because I know I could not continue
here if I did. I made an exception for this one.
It's typical of a good, self-contained story that, by the denouement,
each anomalous element will turn out to have its place. (E.g., Boo
Radley, the incidental crazy neighbor.) You may argue that the
open-endedness of a TV series should relax such constraints, but I don't
think you can (quite yet) claim that no such anomaly attaches to a gay
character. So, if the writers trouble to inform us of a character's
sexual orientation, we instinctively, reasonably expect to learn why.
--
- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com
Rhino
2019-06-27 21:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On In the Dark, Brooke Markham plays Jess, Murphy's roommate and
enabler-in-chief. That the character is a lesbian is integral to the
story, sometimes allowing her to hint that she thinks of Murphy as more
than just a best friend since childhood. She got a storyline in which
she cheated on her just-trying lesbianism girlfriend, then killed the
relationship dead by confessing.
Contrast Rose Leslie as Maia on The Good Fight. Her sexuality is just
forced upon the character and doesn't serve the story at all. Really
seemed like her lesbianism is due to a network note.
There are very few lesbian characters that have ever seemed to fit into
the story. Can anyone list a few others?
The obvious one would seem to be The 'L' Word (which I never saw) but I
assume you mean shows that aren't primarily focused on lesbian life.

Has the Tilly character in Star Trek: Discovery come out as lesbian? I
dropped the show early in season 2 when it seemed to be channelling the
dreadful season 1 again. I know the doctor is already gay but STD seems
to be determined to check ALL the diversity boxes so I was at least
halfway expecting her to be a lesbian....

Even the Durrells in Corfu final season works in some gays - black,
American gays, no less - even though it is set in 1939 on the eve of WW
II when gays were not well-tolerated.

You probably haven't seen Gentleman Jack yet but that new British series
has a focal character who is a lesbian landowner - in the 1830s! And
this is NOT an invented character, it's a woman who actually lived and
wrote voluminous diaries that were the basis of the story.
--
Rhino
Loading...