Discussion:
NOVA episode presages apartment fire disasters in New York
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RichA
2022-01-10 05:12:39 UTC
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One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after. The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
Adam H. Kerman
2022-01-10 05:41:58 UTC
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Post by RichA
One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after.
The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
It was a faulty space heater. I don't see how that makes the building
unsafe, but one wonders why it was needed at all if the building
heat worked.
RichA
2022-01-10 06:04:52 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after.
The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
It was a faulty space heater. I don't see how that makes the building
unsafe, but one wonders why it was needed at all if the building
heat worked.
No sprinklers?
Adam H. Kerman
2022-01-10 06:44:03 UTC
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Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after.
The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
It was a faulty space heater. I don't see how that makes the building
unsafe, but one wonders why it was needed at all if the building
heat worked.
No sprinklers?
I have no idea, but the 19 deaths and 5 dozen serious injuries were due
to smoke inhalation.
RichA
2022-01-10 06:54:22 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after.
The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
It was a faulty space heater. I don't see how that makes the building
unsafe, but one wonders why it was needed at all if the building
heat worked.
No sprinklers?
I have no idea, but the 19 deaths and 5 dozen serious injuries were due
to smoke inhalation.
So what? Where the is no FIRE there is no smoke.
A Friend
2022-01-10 11:57:44 UTC
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Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after.
The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
It was a faulty space heater. I don't see how that makes the building
unsafe, but one wonders why it was needed at all if the building
heat worked.
No sprinklers?
I have no idea, but the 19 deaths and 5 dozen serious injuries were due
to smoke inhalation.
So what? Where the is no FIRE there is no smoke.
Nonsense. Smoke can go anywhere, killing people fifteen or twenty
stories or more above the fire. Smokes rises, dude, and it follows
along ventilation systems, elevator shafts, etc.

People sometimes use space heaters because building-supplied heat
doesn't necessarily make it to all parts of the house or apartment.

This is pretty basic stuff.
Adam H. Kerman
2022-01-10 13:57:04 UTC
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Post by A Friend
. . .
People sometimes use space heaters because building-supplied heat
doesn't necessarily make it to all parts of the house or apartment.
Eh. This was a 1972 high rise. I'll guess forced air and not steam heat.
Heating a space and calculating the number of registers and returns is just
following the same formula they've been using since the start. How to
keep a certain volume of air flowing. The returns -- removing the cooled
air -- are more important than the registers. The builders may have
taken shortcuts on the HVAC, or the insulation or windows need replacement
after all these years. Early '70s, they didn't use adequate insulation.
Post by A Friend
This is pretty basic stuff.
Adam H. Kerman
2022-01-10 13:51:58 UTC
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Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after.
The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
It was a faulty space heater. I don't see how that makes the building
unsafe, but one wonders why it was needed at all if the building
heat worked.
No sprinklers?
I have no idea, but the 19 deaths and 5 dozen serious injuries were due
to smoke inhalation.
So what? Where the is no FIRE there is no smoke.
The fire started with a faulty space heater on the third floor. It
remained in a third-floor hallway and spread because a door was left
open. This said the smoke spread as well due to the open door, but
that's hard to believe.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dozens-injured-alarm-fire-york-city-apartment-building/story?id=82164322

Smoke spread to the upper stories. 13 of those injured (I read 5 dozen
injured in another article) had life-threatening injuries and were taken
to hospitals. The injuries were all due to smoke inhalation, not burns.
I didn't find any statements that any of the dead were burned.

I doubt very much there were sprinklers. This was a 19-story high rise
built in 1972 and that wouldn't have been code at the time. Is it today?
I have no idea but sprinklers in residential high rises have never been
typical.
shawn
2022-01-10 15:18:33 UTC
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:51:58 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by RichA
One major one happened before the NOVA episode aired, one a week after.
The ep. singled out New York as a place with unsafe buildings.
It was a faulty space heater. I don't see how that makes the building
unsafe, but one wonders why it was needed at all if the building
heat worked.
No sprinklers?
I have no idea, but the 19 deaths and 5 dozen serious injuries were due
to smoke inhalation.
So what? Where the is no FIRE there is no smoke.
The fire started with a faulty space heater on the third floor. It
remained in a third-floor hallway and spread because a door was left
open. This said the smoke spread as well due to the open door, but
that's hard to believe.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/dozens-injured-alarm-fire-york-city-apartment-building/story?id=82164322
Smoke spread to the upper stories. 13 of those injured (I read 5 dozen
injured in another article) had life-threatening injuries and were taken
to hospitals. The injuries were all due to smoke inhalation, not burns.
I didn't find any statements that any of the dead were burned.
I doubt very much there were sprinklers. This was a 19-story high rise
built in 1972 and that wouldn't have been code at the time. Is it today?
I have no idea but sprinklers in residential high rises have never been
typical.
I don't know about NYC but I assume it's going to be similar to
California in this case. California requires sprinklers on homes above
a certain size so some of those ultra-sized mansions like the One have
sprinklers installed. I would have to imagine they do something
similar for new construction in NYC and likely every other major city
in the USA. Since fire is one of the hardest things to do with in any
high rise building so a sprinkler system gives the fire fighters a
better chance of containing and putting out a fire in a high rise
whether it be residential or commercial.

Ah, a quick Google search shows the following:

"As a general rule, all Group R occupancies in New York City must be
equipped with an automatic sprinkler system. The system must cover all
fire areas in the building, and the requirement applies for any mixed
occupancies where Group R predominates."

https://www.ny-engineers.com/blog/residential-sprinkler-systems-in-new-york-city
Adam H. Kerman
2022-01-10 15:26:03 UTC
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Post by shawn
. . .
"As a general rule, all Group R occupancies in New York City must be
equipped with an automatic sprinkler system. The system must cover all
fire areas in the building, and the requirement applies for any mixed
occupancies where Group R predominates."
https://www.ny-engineers.com/blog/residential-sprinkler-systems-in-new-york-city
Since you read it, is it retroactive to a building built in 1972, or not?
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