Discussion:
USPS fantastic company!!!
(too old to reply)
RichA
2020-08-21 22:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!

Aug 21, 2020
7:57am

Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
LOS ANGELES CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER

Aug 18, 2020
12:00am

In Transit to Next Facility

Aug 14, 2020
11:58pm

Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
SAN BERNARDINO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER

Aug 14, 2020
10:43pm

Accepted at USPS Origin Facility
MURRIETA, CA 92563

Aug 14, 2020
2:44pm

Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item
MURRIETA, CA 92563

Aug 14, 2020
2:44pm

Tracking number provided
trotsky
2020-08-22 11:53:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
Aug 21, 2020
7:57am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
LOS ANGELES CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
Aug 18, 2020
12:00am
In Transit to Next Facility
Aug 14, 2020
11:58pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
SAN BERNARDINO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
Aug 14, 2020
10:43pm
Accepted at USPS Origin Facility
MURRIETA, CA 92563
Aug 14, 2020
2:44pm
Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item
MURRIETA, CA 92563
Aug 14, 2020
2:44pm
Tracking number provided
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
FPP
2020-08-22 12:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
     Aug 21, 2020
     7:57am
     Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
     LOS ANGELES CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
     Aug 18, 2020
     12:00am
     In Transit to Next Facility
     Aug 14, 2020
     11:58pm
     Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
     SAN BERNARDINO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
     Aug 14, 2020
     10:43pm
     Accepted at USPS Origin Facility
     MURRIETA, CA 92563
     Aug 14, 2020
     2:44pm
     Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item
     MURRIETA, CA 92563
     Aug 14, 2020
     2:44pm
     Tracking number provided
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Are you telling me that idiot doesn't even know he's proving the Dem's
allegation that Trump is deliberately delaying the mail? (Which is a
crime...)
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
trotsky
2020-08-22 13:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
     Aug 21, 2020
     7:57am
     Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
     LOS ANGELES CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
     Aug 18, 2020
     12:00am
     In Transit to Next Facility
     Aug 14, 2020
     11:58pm
     Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
     SAN BERNARDINO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
     Aug 14, 2020
     10:43pm
     Accepted at USPS Origin Facility
     MURRIETA, CA 92563
     Aug 14, 2020
     2:44pm
     Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item
     MURRIETA, CA 92563
     Aug 14, 2020
     2:44pm
     Tracking number provided
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Are you telling me that idiot doesn't even know he's proving the Dem's
allegation that Trump is deliberately delaying the mail?  (Which is a
crime...)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/politics/usps-mail-sorting-machines-photos-trnd/index.html

These are the sorting machines USPS removed that would handle mail and
election ballots

By Paul P. Murphy, CNN

Updated 9:40 AM ET, Fri August 21, 2020

(CNN)Photos obtained by CNN are beginning to show where some of the 671
mail sorting machines the United States Postal Service has planned to
remove have ended up.
RichA
2020-08-22 15:09:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
suzeeq
2020-08-22 15:19:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-22 15:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Oh, the post office removes sorting machines from service and has been
closing distribution centers for years. The Chicago metropolitan area
went from 11 sorting centers after peak expansion in the 1990s to 2.

But what he started doing scrap machines that had just been mothballed.
He's "planning" that the post office will make no recovery at all from
the recession.

As far as overtime, he ordered letter carriers to start their routes on
time. When a truck with inbound mail is running late, all that mail
misses the connection and carriers leave the office that day with too
little mail.

It's actually not cost effective, despite what he thinks, because he's
completely discounting the business value provided by good logistics.
EGK
2020-08-22 15:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Oh, the post office removes sorting machines from service and has been
closing distribution centers for years. The Chicago metropolitan area
went from 11 sorting centers after peak expansion in the 1990s to 2.
But what he started doing scrap machines that had just been mothballed.
He's "planning" that the post office will make no recovery at all from
the recession.
As far as overtime, he ordered letter carriers to start their routes on
time. When a truck with inbound mail is running late, all that mail
misses the connection and carriers leave the office that day with too
little mail.
It's actually not cost effective, despite what he thinks, because he's
completely discounting the business value provided by good logistics.
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-22 16:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.

That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
EGK
2020-08-22 16:47:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.

The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.

Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.

https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.

If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Dimensional Traveler
2020-08-22 17:19:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
EGK
2020-08-22 17:45:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.

And thanks for your previous post in the thread where you helped prove my
point to Adam. It's all Trump's fault. lol
TDS is a real thing.
trotsky
2020-08-22 18:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
You're right, have the Constitution amended then. And be fucking quick
about it you dumb fuck.
FPP
2020-08-22 20:53:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 10:19:41 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
Post by Dimensional Traveler
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:19:08 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. .  .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself.  You're not stupid.   It's relievable for people
wanting to
blame Trump for everything.  Facts be damned.   Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many.   Obviously the Internet has changed
the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit.    I'm not anti-union either.  Unions just
became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us.   We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
You're right, have the Constitution amended then.  And be fucking quick
about it you dumb fuck.
Taxpayers don't pay a dime to the USPS.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
Dimensional Traveler
2020-08-22 20:26:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
You don't see any benefits to society at large for having a neutral,
non-partisan mail service?
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
EGK
2020-08-22 21:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
You don't see any benefits to society at large for having a neutral,
non-partisan mail service?
That's like asking if I don't see any benefit in free health care. Certainly
there's a benefit but nothing is ever free. Someone has to pay for it.
Entities aren't partisan by themselves. People make them that way.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-08-22 22:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
You don't see any benefits to society at large for having a neutral,
non-partisan mail service?
That's like asking if I don't see any benefit in free health care. Certainly
there's a benefit but nothing is ever free. Someone has to pay for it.
Entities aren't partisan by themselves. People make them that way.
The "Founding Fathers" thought a national mail service was important
enough that they included running one in the duties required of the
Federal government.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
danny burstein
2020-08-22 22:54:38 UTC
Permalink
In <rhs795$ir1$***@dont-email.me> Dimensional Traveler <***@sonic.net> writes:

[sniiippp]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The "Founding Fathers" thought a national mail service was important
enough that they included running one in the duties required of the
Federal government.
"required". Really? Allowed and approved, yeah. But "required"?

Show your work
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
FPP
2020-08-22 23:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[sniiippp]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The "Founding Fathers" thought a national mail service was important
enough that they included running one in the duties required of the
Federal government.
"required". Really? Allowed and approved, yeah. But "required"?
Show your work
The Second Continental Congress thought it was required. That didn't
carry over into the Constitution, though.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
trotsky
2020-08-23 12:07:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[sniiippp]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The "Founding Fathers" thought a national mail service was important
enough that they included running one in the duties required of the
Federal government.
"required".  Really?  Allowed and approved, yeah.  But "required"?
Show your work
The Second Continental Congress thought it was required.  That didn't
carry over into the Constitution, though.
It depends on how it's interpreted. And it never was called into
question before the big fat orange asshole showed up.

And circling back to an earlier post, traditionally the USPS has been
subsidized by taxpayers, but over the last few decades has been working
towards self-sufficiency.

Since the early 1980s, many direct tax subsidies to the USPS (with the
exception of subsidies for costs associated with disabled and overseas
voters) have been reduced or eliminated. The USPS, as of 2019, has
469,934 career employees and 136,174 non-career employees.
Key document: Postal Clause of the United Sta...
Agency executives: Louis DeJoy, Postmaster ...
Employees: 633,108 (496,934 career personn...
Formed: July 1, 1971; 49 years ago; Washingt...

United States Postal Service - Wikipedia
FPP
2020-08-23 12:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[sniiippp]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The "Founding Fathers" thought a national mail service was important
enough that they included running one in the duties required of the
Federal government.
"required".  Really?  Allowed and approved, yeah.  But "required"?
Show your work
The Second Continental Congress thought it was required.  That didn't
carry over into the Constitution, though.
It depends on how it's interpreted.  And it never was called into
question before the big fat orange asshole showed up.
And circling back to an earlier post, traditionally the USPS has been
subsidized by taxpayers, but over the last few decades has been working
towards self-sufficiency.
Since the early 1980s, many direct tax subsidies to the USPS (with the
exception of subsidies for costs associated with disabled and overseas
voters) have been reduced or eliminated. The USPS, as of 2019, has
469,934 career employees and 136,174 non-career employees.
Key document: Postal Clause of the United Sta...
Agency executives: Louis DeJoy, Postmaster ...
Employees: 633,108 (496,934 career personn...
Formed: July 1, 1971; 49 years ago; Washingt...
United States Postal Service - Wikipedia
Look... just like the 60,000 Goodyear employees, they can all get new jobs!
For the largest employer of veterans, it's going to be Grate!

People will LOVE to go out and get new jobs during a pandemic!
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
trotsky
2020-08-23 12:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by danny burstein
[sniiippp]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The "Founding Fathers" thought a national mail service was important
enough that they included running one in the duties required of the
Federal government.
"required".  Really?  Allowed and approved, yeah.  But "required"?
Show your work
The Second Continental Congress thought it was required.  That didn't
carry over into the Constitution, though.
It depends on how it's interpreted.  And it never was called into
question before the big fat orange asshole showed up.
And circling back to an earlier post, traditionally the USPS has been
subsidized by taxpayers, but over the last few decades has been
working towards self-sufficiency.
Since the early 1980s, many direct tax subsidies to the USPS (with the
exception of subsidies for costs associated with disabled and overseas
voters) have been reduced or eliminated. The USPS, as of 2019, has
469,934 career employees and 136,174 non-career employees.
Key document: Postal Clause of the United Sta...
Agency executives: Louis DeJoy, Postmaster ...
Employees: 633,108 (496,934 career personn...
Formed: July 1, 1971; 49 years ago; Washingt...
United States Postal Service - Wikipedia
Look... just like the 60,000 Goodyear employees, they can all get new jobs!
For the largest employer of veterans, it's going to be Grate!
People will LOVE to go out and get new jobs during a pandemic!
Did Herman Cain leave a job opening? There should be a list somewhere
of dead MAGAs and the jobs they left open. They could be more useful in
death than they were in life.
trotsky
2020-08-23 11:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[sniiippp]
Post by Dimensional Traveler
The "Founding Fathers" thought a national mail service was important
enough that they included running one in the duties required of the
Federal government.
"required". Really? Allowed and approved, yeah. But "required"?
Show your work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Clause
FPP
2020-08-22 23:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
You don't see any benefits to society at large for having a neutral,
non-partisan mail service?
That's like asking if I don't see any benefit in free health care. Certainly
there's a benefit but nothing is ever free. Someone has to pay for it.
Entities aren't partisan by themselves. People make them that way.
Yeah, and they're called 'taxes'. Just like every other civilized
industrial country, except the US.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
FPP
2020-08-22 20:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
What the fuck ARE you talking about? Do you actually KNOW anything?

"In fact, the Postal Service receives zero tax dollars for its
operations. Without taking a dime in taxes, the Postal Service maintains
the lowest prices for mail services in the industrialized world and
delivers to 159 million addresses, six—and now often seven—days a
week—all funded by revenue from the sale of stamps and other postal
products."

"Still, that persistent myth—that the Postal Service is a burden to
taxpayers—is precisely the false narrative that led Congress to pass the
2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. That act manufactured a
financial crisis by compelling the Postal Service to pre-fund all
retiree health care costs, 75 years into the future—for workers not even
born yet. This mandate transferred postal revenues to the U.S. Treasury
and robbed the Postal Service of $5.6 billion a year over a 10-year
period. No other company or agency faces, or could be expected to
survive, such an onerous financial burden.

Adding to the absurdity is the fact that, prior to the 2006 law, the
Postal Service had been reliably paying its annual retirement health
benefit premiums on time."

Jesus Christ, learn the facts.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
RichA
2020-08-23 08:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
What the fuck ARE you talking about? Do you actually KNOW anything?
"In fact, the Postal Service receives zero tax dollars for its
Has ANYONE ever thought, "gee, maybe they should charge what it COSTS???" Every f------ thing in the world is subsidized these days, from school lunches to green energy. Guess what? The rich who pay by FAR the most taxes are already subsidizing the lives of at least 40% of the entire population.
trotsky
2020-08-23 12:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
What the fuck ARE you talking about? Do you actually KNOW anything?
"In fact, the Postal Service receives zero tax dollars for its
Has ANYONE ever thought, "gee, maybe they should charge what it COSTS???"
You've already been shown what the problem is, either speak to that or
shut all the way the fuck up.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-23 14:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:19:08 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could
be saved.
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people
wanting to
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just
became like
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd
need that
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years—including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was
free for
Post by FPP
Post by EGK
Post by Dimensional Traveler
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
Why are you assuming the USPS has to be profitable?
They don't but it would be nice if tax payers didnt have to subsidize the
waste either.
What the fuck ARE you talking about? Do you actually KNOW anything?
"In fact, the Postal Service receives zero tax dollars for its
Has ANYONE ever thought, "gee, maybe they should charge what it
COSTS???" Every f------ thing in the world is subsidized these days,
from school lunches to green energy. Guess what? The rich who pay by
FAR the most taxes are already subsidizing the lives of at least 40% of
the entire population.
You keep saying the rich subsidize everyone else. You've said this about
20 times. You're hysterical.
trotsky
2020-08-22 18:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid.
You sure as fuck are. Constitutionally mandated--you'll never fucking
comprehend what that means.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-22 23:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
I got the bit about blaming Trump.

I'm stating for a fact that First-Class Mail isn't underpriced generally
and covers its share of costs as required by law. It is underpriced for
last-mile service for package shippers.
Post by EGK
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
The jobs pay decently versus comparable federal civilian jobs but aren't
cushy. There's no featherbedding.

A lot of management is intransigent and unimaginitive, and pricing
poorly reflects demand. Too many of the work sharing discounts are
poorly thought out.

The biggest problem is the Postal authorization act of 2006, which
required the post office to pre-fund retirement health benefits for the
next 75 years. Otherwise, the post office can live off its revenue.

I'm not saying that they can't do better. I cannot emphasize enough how
unimaginitive management is.
Post by EGK
Paying $5 for a stamp was sarcastic. It wasn't meant to say they'd need that
to cover first class postage but to help off-set the rest of their
staggaring debt.
Congress did it to them.
Post by EGK
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/us_postal_service_financial_viability/issue_summary
USPS has lost $69 billion over the past 11 fiscal years - including $3.9
billion in fiscal year 2018. USPS's total unfunded liabilities and debt
($143 billion at the end of fiscal year 2018) have grown to double its
annual revenue.
If only the "rich" would pay their "fair share" and everything was free for
the rest of us. We'd all be saved!!!
I've explained above the source of the unfunded liabilities.
suzeeq
2020-08-24 00:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
I got the bit about blaming Trump.
I'm stating for a fact that First-Class Mail isn't underpriced generally
and covers its share of costs as required by law. It is underpriced for
last-mile service for package shippers.
Post by EGK
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
The jobs pay decently versus comparable federal civilian jobs but aren't
cushy. There's no featherbedding.
A lot of management is intransigent and unimaginitive, and pricing
poorly reflects demand. Too many of the work sharing discounts are
poorly thought out.
The biggest problem is the Postal authorization act of 2006, which
required the post office to pre-fund retirement health benefits for the
next 75 years. Otherwise, the post office can live off its revenue.
Whose idea was that anyway, why, and why so far in advance? If they
wanted to protect the health of retired employees, 20 seems more reasonable.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-24 00:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
I got the bit about blaming Trump.
I'm stating for a fact that First-Class Mail isn't underpriced generally
and covers its share of costs as required by law. It is underpriced for
last-mile service for package shippers.
Post by EGK
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
The jobs pay decently versus comparable federal civilian jobs but aren't
cushy. There's no featherbedding.
A lot of management is intransigent and unimaginitive, and pricing
poorly reflects demand. Too many of the work sharing discounts are
poorly thought out.
The biggest problem is the Postal authorization act of 2006, which
required the post office to pre-fund retirement health benefits for the
next 75 years. Otherwise, the post office can live off its revenue.
Whose idea was that anyway, why, and why so far in advance? If they
wanted to protect the health of retired employees, 20 seems more reasonable.
It came from certain ideologues in the George W. Bush White House, and
Bush didn't stand against them. They were convinced that the post office
could be privatized and thought this huge pile of cash would make it
tempting. But private business doesn't want to own the post office
because of the universal service requirement and the fact that UPS and
FedEx want to take advantage of the post office making final delivery
in rural areas they don't want to serve directly.

Also, Danny Davis, ranking minority member, went along with it thinking
it was somehow beneficial to labor.
suzeeq
2020-08-24 05:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. . .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself. You're not stupid. It's relievable for people wanting to
blame Trump for everything. Facts be damned. Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
I got the bit about blaming Trump.
I'm stating for a fact that First-Class Mail isn't underpriced generally
and covers its share of costs as required by law. It is underpriced for
last-mile service for package shippers.
Post by EGK
The USPS's problems are many. Obviously the Internet has changed the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit. I'm not anti-union either. Unions just became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
The jobs pay decently versus comparable federal civilian jobs but aren't
cushy. There's no featherbedding.
A lot of management is intransigent and unimaginitive, and pricing
poorly reflects demand. Too many of the work sharing discounts are
poorly thought out.
The biggest problem is the Postal authorization act of 2006, which
required the post office to pre-fund retirement health benefits for the
next 75 years. Otherwise, the post office can live off its revenue.
Whose idea was that anyway, why, and why so far in advance? If they
wanted to protect the health of retired employees, 20 seems more reasonable.
It came from certain ideologues in the George W. Bush White House, and
Bush didn't stand against them. They were convinced that the post office
could be privatized and thought this huge pile of cash would make it
tempting. But private business doesn't want to own the post office
because of the universal service requirement and the fact that UPS and
FedEx want to take advantage of the post office making final delivery
in rural areas they don't want to serve directly.
Also, Danny Davis, ranking minority member, went along with it thinking
it was somehow beneficial to labor.
Thanks.
FPP
2020-08-24 02:01:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Adam H. Kerman
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:19:08 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
. .  .
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
C'mon. That's not funny, and it's not true. First-Class Mail postage
still pays for its costs, or at least it did prior to the recession.
That's irrelevant to anything being discussed here.
C'mon yourself.  You're not stupid.   It's relievable for people
wanting to
blame Trump for everything.  Facts be damned.   Ignorant people see the
pictures online of the USPS removing mailboxes and the media creates the
illusion it's tied to Trump blocking mail-in voting.
I got the bit about blaming Trump.
I'm stating for a fact that First-Class Mail isn't underpriced generally
and covers its share of costs as required by law. It is underpriced for
last-mile service for package shippers.
The USPS's problems are many.   Obviously the Internet has changed
the way
people communicate but decades of cushy union jobs and ever increasing
benefits and salaries have killed it just like they helped kill the auto
industry in Detroit.    I'm not anti-union either.  Unions just
became like
a pendulum swinging too far the other way.
The jobs pay decently versus comparable federal civilian jobs but aren't
cushy. There's no featherbedding.
A lot of management is intransigent and unimaginitive, and pricing
poorly reflects demand. Too many of the work sharing discounts are
poorly thought out.
The biggest problem is the Postal authorization act of 2006, which
required the post office to pre-fund retirement health benefits for the
next 75 years. Otherwise, the post office can live off its revenue.
Whose idea was that anyway, why, and why so far in advance? If they
wanted to protect the health of retired employees, 20 seems more reasonable.
The whole reason was to make it easier to justify privatization. Like
always.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
trotsky
2020-08-22 18:28:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Oh, the post office removes sorting machines from service and has been
closing distribution centers for years. The Chicago metropolitan area
went from 11 sorting centers after peak expansion in the 1990s to 2.
But what he started doing scrap machines that had just been mothballed.
He's "planning" that the post office will make no recovery at all from
the recession.
As far as overtime, he ordered letter carriers to start their routes on
time. When a truck with inbound mail is running late, all that mail
misses the connection and carriers leave the office that day with too
little mail.
It's actually not cost effective, despite what he thinks, because he's
completely discounting the business value provided by good logistics.
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE "SAVED", ASSHOLE, IT'S CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED.
HAVE SOMEONE WITH A FUCKING BRAIN HELP YOU IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
FUCK THAT MEANS.

FUCKING MORON. YOU'RE AS FUCKING STUPID AS "RICHA".
FPP
2020-08-22 20:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Oh, the post office removes sorting machines from service and has been
closing distribution centers for years. The Chicago metropolitan area
went from 11 sorting centers after peak expansion in the 1990s to 2.
But what he started doing scrap machines that had just been mothballed.
He's "planning" that the post office will make no recovery at all from
the recession.
As far as overtime, he ordered letter carriers to start their routes on
time. When a truck with inbound mail is running late, all that mail
misses the connection and carriers leave the office that day with too
little mail.
It's actually not cost effective, despite what he thinks, because he's
completely discounting the business value provided by good logistics.
If only people would agree to pay $5 for a stamp, the USPS could be saved.
It's all that bastardTrump's fault that people won't!!!
No... if Congress didn't force the Post Office to fund retirements for
WORKERS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN BORN YET, they'd be making a profit.

Because, until Congress made them fund retirements 75 YEARS INTO THE
FUTURE, the USPS made money.

It always MADE money.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
suzeeq
2020-08-22 16:03:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Oh, the post office removes sorting machines from service and has been
closing distribution centers for years. The Chicago metropolitan area
went from 11 sorting centers after peak expansion in the 1990s to 2.
But what he started doing scrap machines that had just been mothballed.
He's "planning" that the post office will make no recovery at all from
the recession.
As far as overtime, he ordered letter carriers to start their routes on
time. When a truck with inbound mail is running late, all that mail
misses the connection and carriers leave the office that day with too
little mail.
Interesting, that part of it I didn't know.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
It's actually not cost effective, despite what he thinks, because he's
completely discounting the business value provided by good logistics.
Yep.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-08-22 17:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a LONG time
in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room

Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?

President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
suzeeq
2020-08-22 17:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
EGK
2020-08-22 19:00:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam. "Orange man bad".
FPP
2020-08-22 20:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam. "Orange man bad".
Don't forget 'corrupt' and 'stupid'.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
FPP
2020-08-22 20:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam. "Orange man bad".
176,000 dead Americans... "we've done a grate job!".

4 Dead at Benghazi!(tm) - 8 investigations.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-23 01:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by EGK
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam. "Orange man bad".
Several of the things discussed in this thread, except eliminating
street collection boxes, are Trump administration policies, especially
the overtime crap. As I posted on followup to suzeeq elsewhere, Trump's
postmaster general ordered letter carriers to depart at their scheduled
time, even if it means they miss the connection with a truck filled with
incoming mail. That means carriers are sent out on their routes with too
few pieces which is a waste of money. That's a huge fuck up.

I'm posting AGAIN about the admired top postal boss who was forced to
resign.

https://deadtreeedition.blogspot.com/2020/05/assistant-postmaster-calls-it-quits.html

The other thing that's NOT new Trump administration policy is pulling
those letter sorting machines, but I still don't agree with scrapping
hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment rather than just
mothballing it.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-08-23 02:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam. "Orange man bad".
Several of the things discussed in this thread, except eliminating
street collection boxes, are Trump administration policies, especially
the overtime crap. As I posted on followup to suzeeq elsewhere, Trump's
postmaster general ordered letter carriers to depart at their scheduled
time, even if it means they miss the connection with a truck filled with
incoming mail. That means carriers are sent out on their routes with too
few pieces which is a waste of money. That's a huge fuck up.
I'm posting AGAIN about the admired top postal boss who was forced to
resign.
https://deadtreeedition.blogspot.com/2020/05/assistant-postmaster-calls-it-quits.html
The other thing that's NOT new Trump administration policy is pulling
those letter sorting machines, but I still don't agree with scrapping
hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment rather than just
mothballing it.
The "trucks must leave on schedule" is Dejoy trying to fix an issue
without even attempting to find out what the _cause_ of the issue is.
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-23 02:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam. "Orange man bad".
Several of the things discussed in this thread, except eliminating
street collection boxes, are Trump administration policies, especially
the overtime crap. As I posted on followup to suzeeq elsewhere, Trump's
postmaster general ordered letter carriers to depart at their scheduled
time, even if it means they miss the connection with a truck filled with
incoming mail. That means carriers are sent out on their routes with too
few pieces which is a waste of money. That's a huge fuck up.
I'm posting AGAIN about the admired top postal boss who was forced to
resign.
https://deadtreeedition.blogspot.com/2020/05/assistant-postmaster-calls-it-quits.html
The other thing that's NOT new Trump administration policy is pulling
those letter sorting machines, but I still don't agree with scrapping
hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment rather than just
mothballing it.
The "trucks must leave on schedule" is Dejoy trying to fix an issue
without even attempting to find out what the _cause_ of the issue is.
Moving mail is a logistics business. That's the service you are selling.
That's a major contribution to value.

I have the distinct impression he knows everything, he has no interest
in taking advice from those with experience, and doing his homework to
learn the business is hard work he just won't do.
Dimensional Traveler
2020-08-23 05:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by EGK
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam. "Orange man bad".
Several of the things discussed in this thread, except eliminating
street collection boxes, are Trump administration policies, especially
the overtime crap. As I posted on followup to suzeeq elsewhere, Trump's
postmaster general ordered letter carriers to depart at their scheduled
time, even if it means they miss the connection with a truck filled with
incoming mail. That means carriers are sent out on their routes with too
few pieces which is a waste of money. That's a huge fuck up.
I'm posting AGAIN about the admired top postal boss who was forced to
resign.
https://deadtreeedition.blogspot.com/2020/05/assistant-postmaster-calls-it-quits.html
The other thing that's NOT new Trump administration policy is pulling
those letter sorting machines, but I still don't agree with scrapping
hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment rather than just
mothballing it.
The "trucks must leave on schedule" is Dejoy trying to fix an issue
without even attempting to find out what the _cause_ of the issue is.
Moving mail is a logistics business. That's the service you are selling.
That's a major contribution to value.
I have the distinct impression he knows everything, he has no interest
in taking advice from those with experience, and doing his homework to
learn the business is hard work he just won't do.
A Trump appointee thinking he knows more than the career professionals?!
Heresy!! :P
--
<to be filled in at a later date>
FPP
2020-08-23 05:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Dimensional Traveler
Post by suzeeq
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid
motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a LONG time
in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
Political Cartoon
Scene: White House Press Room
Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good
people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor
service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?
President: Well, I promised to run government like one of my businesses...
Yeah, that must be the reasoning that drives ALL his decisions!
And thank you too for proving my point to Adam.     "Orange man bad".
Several of the things discussed in this thread, except eliminating
street collection boxes, are Trump administration policies, especially
the overtime crap. As I posted on followup to suzeeq elsewhere, Trump's
postmaster general ordered letter carriers to depart at their scheduled
time, even if it means they miss the connection with a truck filled with
incoming mail. That means carriers are sent out on their routes with too
few pieces which is a waste of money. That's a huge fuck up.
I'm posting AGAIN about the admired top postal boss who was forced to
resign.
https://deadtreeedition.blogspot.com/2020/05/assistant-postmaster-calls-it-quits.html
The other thing that's NOT new Trump administration policy is pulling
those letter sorting machines, but I still don't agree with scrapping
hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment rather than just
mothballing it.
The "trucks must leave on schedule" is Dejoy trying to fix an issue
without even attempting to find out what the _cause_ of the issue is.
Dejoy know EXACTLY what he's doing...
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
RichA
2020-08-22 18:50:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
What he did didn't change 1 day delivery to SEVEN.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-23 01:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Post by suzeeq
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
What he did didn't change 1 day delivery to SEVEN.
You're right, Rich. From the time stamps, it's clear that it was sitting
in a large pile of packages that was ignored at the sorting center for
five days.
Micky DuPree
2020-09-03 05:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
He's also got rid of overtime, so people aren't sorting the mail (or
running the sorting machines) for as long, whick slows it down. He's
also proposed shutting down some of the sort centers.
That's one of the problems.

The following is me paraphrasing a retired USPS worker paraphrasing a
colleague who still works with the USPS. I'm not supposed to use names,
so I'm sure that means that it will be dismissed out of hand by some,
and for once, I can understand that, but I swear by my guy, and he
swears by his.

To preface, given that the number of poll workers has declined (most are
over 60, and many do not want to risk exposure to the virus this year),
and given that the desire to vote by mail is likely to increase during a
pandemic, any slowing of the mail service is a cause for concern, and
yes, even for suspicion. Now, the amount of publicity given to
individual problems may not be commensurate with the threat each problem
poses. The problems in order of importance:

1) Elimination of some class-based mail priority. When time and
resources were limited, express mail, priority package mail, and
first-class letter mail used to be given priority over first-class
package mail, third-class bulk mail, retail ground mail, and media mail
packages. Now nothing below priority package rate gets priority.
Voting ballots, sent out via first-class letter mail, used to be given
the highest priority. Now if there's too much mail to sort in one day,
ballots could be held back along with the third-class advertising
flyers. Even if your ballot is delayed by only one day more than usual,
if your ballot misses your state's deadline, that's just tough.

2) The Postmaster General is talking about eliminating the non-profit
postage rate for states to mail ballots out to voters, meaning an
increase from 20 cents per ballot to 55 cents. When you're talking
about potentially millions of ballots, that's a discouraging measure for
already cash-strapped states, who might be forced to cut back on mail-in
ballots to save money. After all, if both conservative and liberal
nonprofits are allowed to use the cheaper rate to urge you to vote, then
why shouldn't the ballots themselves benefit from the same nonprofit
rate?

3) Cutting out routine overtime hours. Overtime hours used to be a
routine way to deal with higher fluctuations in mail volume. The
elimination of overtime hours at processing facilities is already
leading to backlogs, and the ballots haven't even gone out yet.

4) Less dramatic, but still making a difference is hand-sorting in many
places has been moved from something that carriers do in the mornings
before their routes to something they do in the evening when they're
done with their routes. A lot of state ballots fall into this category
because they're too bulky to be machine-sorted. It's only a single
extra day of delay each way for the ballots, but again, when deadlines
are rigorously enforced, it will make a difference.

5) Reductions in mail-sorting machines. It's true this has been
overblown, primarily because it's one of the more visible measures
that's been going on. Some of those machines being taken out of
commission are just routinely being serviced, replaced, or
decommissioned, so no, there's nothing qualitatively out of the ordinary
about that. But the overall number of decommissioned machines is
concerning when you're looking at a predicted rise in electoral demand
coming up.

6) Finally, probably the most visible but least concerning problem is
corner mailboxes being taken out of service. This has been going on for
decades ever since the mass adoption of email. Maaaaybe more are being
taken out of service than is warranted by traffic, but there's no place
that's reporting that they no longer have a way to send mail out, so
this one's overblown.

Taken together, though, these problems are rightfully seen as
impediments to the prompt delivery of ballots to voters requesting them,
and as impediments to the on-time return of those ballots to their local
election offices.

Micky speaking purely on her own now: Personally, if one can, and one's
state and local election office allow it, I'd recommend doing one of the
following (in this order):

1) Vote early in person at one's local election office. Lines are
unlikely to be long if one votes before Election Day, so one can get in
and get out in an expeditious manner, and ease the strain on both voting
by mail and on in-person voting on Election Day.

2) If that still takes too much time away from work or childcare/
eldercare, most states allow one to simply drop off one's completed
absentee ballot in person at the election office (or sometimes a
designated dropbox), which also eases the strain on the mail system.
If one is confused about the procedure for validating one's absentee
ballot, one can ask for help at the election office before handing it
over.

3) If health, mobility, transportation, and/or childcare/eldercare
issues prevent you from going in person, vote by mail, but request your
absentee ballot as soon as you're allowed, and then send it back in as
soon as you're able. Avoid the last-minute rush. That last-minute rush
leads to delays that cause some ballots to miss their state's deadline.

Anything we can do to relieve the last-minute pressure -- for both
mail-in voting and for in-person voting on Election Day -- will help the
wheels of democracy turn more smoothly and make things safer for both
voters and poll workers.

None of this has anything to do with fraud via absentee ballots, which
is a wholly unsubstantiated allegation. It all comes down to the
practical logistics of processing a larger than usual volume of mail-in
ballots when the Postmaster General has instituted rules that increase
mail delays. The link below gives you a thorough breakdown of your
options. A full 36 states and D.C. allow you to vote by mail without
needing an excuse. An additional 9 states will allow you to use
avoidance of Covid-19 as your excuse to vote by mail this year. Only
6 states require an excuse to vote by mail yet will not allow Covid-19
to be your excuse.

Only 3 states do not allow early in-person voting of any kind.

Only 9 states do not provide a way for you to track your mail-in ballot
after it has been mailed. I admit, I would be a lot more uncomfortable
voting by mail in those states. I've previously voted by mail in
Florida, and it was reassuring to be able to go online and see that my
ballot had been both received and accepted as valid.

If you scroll down to your state, it will give you the deadlines to
register, to request a mail-in ballot, to send it back in, and it gives
you links to your state's election site for early in-person voting
details.

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/plan-your-vote-state-by-state-guide-voting-by-mail-early-in-person-voting-election/

-Micky
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-03 08:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
That's one of the problems.
The following is me paraphrasing a retired USPS worker paraphrasing a
colleague who still works with the USPS. I'm not supposed to use names,
so I'm sure that means that it will be dismissed out of hand by some,
and for once, I can understand that, but I swear by my guy, and he
swears by his.
To preface, given that the number of poll workers has declined (most are
over 60, and many do not want to risk exposure to the virus this year),
and given that the desire to vote by mail is likely to increase during a
pandemic, any slowing of the mail service is a cause for concern, and
yes, even for suspicion. Now, the amount of publicity given to
individual problems may not be commensurate with the threat each problem
There haven't been enough poll workers since forever. It's a 15 hour
day, plus additional training. A lot of people just don't like getting
up at 3:30 am.
Post by Micky DuPree
1) Elimination of some class-based mail priority. When time and
resources were limited, express mail, priority package mail, and
first-class letter mail used to be given priority over first-class
package mail, third-class bulk mail, retail ground mail, and media mail
packages. Now nothing below priority package rate gets priority.
Voting ballots, sent out via first-class letter mail, used to be given
the highest priority. Now if there's too much mail to sort in one day,
ballots could be held back along with the third-class advertising
flyers. Even if your ballot is delayed by only one day more than usual,
if your ballot misses your state's deadline, that's just tough.
Ballots and other election-related material receive special handling by
law, but do not pay extra for the treatment. I guess Congress could add
some penalties.
Post by Micky DuPree
2) The Postmaster General is talking about eliminating the non-profit
postage rate for states to mail ballots out to voters, meaning an
increase from 20 cents per ballot to 55 cents.
He can yap about whatever he likes, but it's the law. Some, not all,
election material pays bulk rate but moves with First-Class Mail. This
has to do with mail canvass.

Ballots are returned as Business Reply Mail, which is more expensive
than First Class.
Post by Micky DuPree
When you're talking
about potentially millions of ballots, that's a discouraging measure for
already cash-strapped states, who might be forced to cut back on mail-in
ballots to save money.
They can't do that either unless they change state law.

After all, if both conservative and liberal
Post by Micky DuPree
nonprofits are allowed to use the cheaper rate to urge you to vote, then
why shouldn't the ballots themselves benefit from the same nonprofit
rate?
That doesn't follow.
Post by Micky DuPree
3) Cutting out routine overtime hours. Overtime hours used to be a
routine way to deal with higher fluctuations in mail volume. The
elimination of overtime hours at processing facilities is already
leading to backlogs, and the ballots haven't even gone out yet.
It's more than just overtime. He's deliberately created policies in
which connections are missed. He's ruining the post office thoroughly.
Post by Micky DuPree
4) Less dramatic, but still making a difference is hand-sorting in many
places has been moved from something that carriers do in the mornings
before their routes to something they do in the evening when they're
done with their routes.
Carriers do as little sorting of mail as possible. This has been true
for years, nothing to do with Trump. It was a political decision within
USPS that "office time" be reduced as much as possible for carriers,
with more "street time", so what ends up happening is they do certain
sorting functions in their Jeeps. In my opinion, this is less efficient,
but it gives the postal bosses the statistics they wanted.

Evening? I've never heard of that. After carriers leave, assistant
carriers do some sorting of mail already sorted to carrier routes and
put it up in their cases. If the regular carrier did that upon returning
to the office, that would be on overtime.

Mostly it's bulk mail, but these days with carries told to depart before
teh final truck with First-Class Mail has arrived, it could very well be
First-Class.
Post by Micky DuPree
A lot of state ballots fall into this category
because they're too bulky to be machine-sorted. It's only a single
extra day of delay each way for the ballots, but again, when deadlines
are rigorously enforced, it will make a difference.
They're flats, not letters, yes.

For years, state law has been unreasonble about deadlines. Everybody
knows this but most state legislatures refuse to fix problems they
created. My state finally fixed this within the last 10 years by
allowing that ballots be counted tht are postmarked by Election Day and
received within two weeks. It delays certifiction of election results,
but that's not really a problem.
Post by Micky DuPree
5) Reductions in mail-sorting machines. It's true this has been
overblown, primarily because it's one of the more visible measures
that's been going on. Some of those machines being taken out of
commission are just routinely being serviced, replaced, or
decommissioned, so no, there's nothing qualitatively out of the ordinary
about that. But the overall number of decommissioned machines is
concerning when you're looking at a predicted rise in electoral demand
coming up.
This affects letter-sized mail more tha flat-sized mail. As you just
pointed out, returned ballots are flats.
Post by Micky DuPree
6) Finally, probably the most visible but least concerning problem is
corner mailboxes being taken out of service. This has been going on for
decades ever since the mass adoption of email. Maaaaybe more are being
taken out of service than is warranted by traffic, but there's no place
that's reporting that they no longer have a way to send mail out, so
this one's overblown.
Any voter on a city or rural routes can always mail from his own mailbox
and that has nothing to do with street-collection boxs.
Post by Micky DuPree
Taken together, though, these problems are rightfully seen as
impediments to the prompt delivery of ballots to voters requesting them,
and as impediments to the on-time return of those ballots to their local
election offices.
Micky speaking purely on her own now: Personally, if one can, and one's
state and local election office allow it, I'd recommend doing one of the
1) Vote early in person at one's local election office. Lines are
unlikely to be long if one votes before Election Day, so one can get in
and get out in an expeditious manner, and ease the strain on both voting
by mail and on in-person voting on Election Day.
2) If that still takes too much time away from work or childcare/
eldercare, most states allow one to simply drop off one's completed
absentee ballot in person at the election office (or sometimes a
designated dropbox), which also eases the strain on the mail system.
If one is confused about the procedure for validating one's absentee
ballot, one can ask for help at the election office before handing it
over.
3) If health, mobility, transportation, and/or childcare/eldercare
issues prevent you from going in person, vote by mail, but request your
absentee ballot as soon as you're allowed, and then send it back in as
soon as you're able. Avoid the last-minute rush. That last-minute rush
leads to delays that cause some ballots to miss their state's deadline.
Anything we can do to relieve the last-minute pressure -- for both
mail-in voting and for in-person voting on Election Day -- will help the
wheels of democracy turn more smoothly and make things safer for both
voters and poll workers.
None of this has anything to do with fraud via absentee ballots, which
is a wholly unsubstantiated allegation. It all comes down to the
practical logistics of processing a larger than usual volume of mail-in
ballots when the Postmaster General has instituted rules that increase
mail delays. The link below gives you a thorough breakdown of your
options. A full 36 states and D.C. allow you to vote by mail without
needing an excuse. An additional 9 states will allow you to use
avoidance of Covid-19 as your excuse to vote by mail this year. Only
6 states require an excuse to vote by mail yet will not allow Covid-19
to be your excuse.
Only 3 states do not allow early in-person voting of any kind.
Only 9 states do not provide a way for you to track your mail-in ballot
after it has been mailed. I admit, I would be a lot more uncomfortable
voting by mail in those states. I've previously voted by mail in
Florida, and it was reassuring to be able to go online and see that my
ballot had been both received and accepted as valid.
If you scroll down to your state, it will give you the deadlines to
register, to request a mail-in ballot, to send it back in, and it gives
you links to your state's election site for early in-person voting
details.
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/plan-your-vote-state-by-state-guide-voting-by-mail-early-in-person-voting-election/
-Micky
Arthur Lipscomb
2020-09-03 15:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
That's one of the problems.
The following is me paraphrasing a retired USPS worker paraphrasing a
colleague who still works with the USPS. I'm not supposed to use names,
so I'm sure that means that it will be dismissed out of hand by some,
and for once, I can understand that, but I swear by my guy, and he
swears by his.
To preface, given that the number of poll workers has declined (most are
over 60, and many do not want to risk exposure to the virus this year),
and given that the desire to vote by mail is likely to increase during a
pandemic, any slowing of the mail service is a cause for concern, and
yes, even for suspicion. Now, the amount of publicity given to
individual problems may not be commensurate with the threat each problem
There haven't been enough poll workers since forever. It's a 15 hour
day, plus additional training. A lot of people just don't like getting
up at 3:30 am.
Yes, but fear of dying from the pandemic doesn't help matters.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
1) Elimination of some class-based mail priority. When time and
resources were limited, express mail, priority package mail, and
first-class letter mail used to be given priority over first-class
package mail, third-class bulk mail, retail ground mail, and media mail
packages. Now nothing below priority package rate gets priority.
Voting ballots, sent out via first-class letter mail, used to be given
the highest priority. Now if there's too much mail to sort in one day,
ballots could be held back along with the third-class advertising
flyers. Even if your ballot is delayed by only one day more than usual,
if your ballot misses your state's deadline, that's just tough.
Ballots and other election-related material receive special handling by
law, but do not pay extra for the treatment. I guess Congress could add
some penalties.
Post by Micky DuPree
2) The Postmaster General is talking about eliminating the non-profit
postage rate for states to mail ballots out to voters, meaning an
increase from 20 cents per ballot to 55 cents.
He can yap about whatever he likes, but it's the law. Some, not all,
election material pays bulk rate but moves with First-Class Mail. This
has to do with mail canvass.
Ballots are returned as Business Reply Mail, which is more expensive
than First Class.
Post by Micky DuPree
When you're talking
about potentially millions of ballots, that's a discouraging measure for
already cash-strapped states, who might be forced to cut back on mail-in
ballots to save money.
They can't do that either unless they change state law.
After all, if both conservative and liberal
Post by Micky DuPree
nonprofits are allowed to use the cheaper rate to urge you to vote, then
why shouldn't the ballots themselves benefit from the same nonprofit
rate?
That doesn't follow.
Post by Micky DuPree
3) Cutting out routine overtime hours. Overtime hours used to be a
routine way to deal with higher fluctuations in mail volume. The
elimination of overtime hours at processing facilities is already
leading to backlogs, and the ballots haven't even gone out yet.
It's more than just overtime. He's deliberately created policies in
which connections are missed. He's ruining the post office thoroughly.
Post by Micky DuPree
4) Less dramatic, but still making a difference is hand-sorting in many
places has been moved from something that carriers do in the mornings
before their routes to something they do in the evening when they're
done with their routes.
Carriers do as little sorting of mail as possible. This has been true
for years, nothing to do with Trump. It was a political decision within
USPS that "office time" be reduced as much as possible for carriers,
with more "street time", so what ends up happening is they do certain
sorting functions in their Jeeps. In my opinion, this is less efficient,
but it gives the postal bosses the statistics they wanted.
Evening? I've never heard of that. After carriers leave, assistant
carriers do some sorting of mail already sorted to carrier routes and
put it up in their cases. If the regular carrier did that upon returning
to the office, that would be on overtime.
Mostly it's bulk mail, but these days with carries told to depart before
teh final truck with First-Class Mail has arrived, it could very well be
First-Class.
Post by Micky DuPree
A lot of state ballots fall into this category
because they're too bulky to be machine-sorted. It's only a single
extra day of delay each way for the ballots, but again, when deadlines
are rigorously enforced, it will make a difference.
They're flats, not letters, yes.
For years, state law has been unreasonble about deadlines. Everybody
knows this but most state legislatures refuse to fix problems they
created. My state finally fixed this within the last 10 years by
allowing that ballots be counted tht are postmarked by Election Day and
received within two weeks. It delays certifiction of election results,
but that's not really a problem.
Post by Micky DuPree
5) Reductions in mail-sorting machines. It's true this has been
overblown, primarily because it's one of the more visible measures
that's been going on. Some of those machines being taken out of
commission are just routinely being serviced, replaced, or
decommissioned, so no, there's nothing qualitatively out of the ordinary
about that. But the overall number of decommissioned machines is
concerning when you're looking at a predicted rise in electoral demand
coming up.
This affects letter-sized mail more tha flat-sized mail. As you just
pointed out, returned ballots are flats.
Post by Micky DuPree
6) Finally, probably the most visible but least concerning problem is
corner mailboxes being taken out of service. This has been going on for
decades ever since the mass adoption of email. Maaaaybe more are being
taken out of service than is warranted by traffic, but there's no place
that's reporting that they no longer have a way to send mail out, so
this one's overblown.
Any voter on a city or rural routes can always mail from his own mailbox
and that has nothing to do with street-collection boxs.
Not everyone has outgoing mail at their place of residence. Speaking
from personal experience, I'm sure many others share, options for
incoming and outgoing mail varies *greatly* depending on where you live.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
Taken together, though, these problems are rightfully seen as
impediments to the prompt delivery of ballots to voters requesting them,
and as impediments to the on-time return of those ballots to their local
election offices.
Micky speaking purely on her own now: Personally, if one can, and one's
state and local election office allow it, I'd recommend doing one of the
1) Vote early in person at one's local election office. Lines are
unlikely to be long if one votes before Election Day, so one can get in
and get out in an expeditious manner, and ease the strain on both voting
by mail and on in-person voting on Election Day.
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
suzeeq
2020-09-03 15:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
If they're set up outside the election office, or city hall, they should
be real.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-03 21:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
If they're set up outside the election office, or city hall, they should
be real.
I cannot emphasize enough -- I've already said it a dozen times on
Usenet -- that an UNATTENDED ballot box is not a ballot box. The
location is irrelevant. The only legitimate ballot box might be at an
early voting location during hours in which it is attended.

This is the stupidest idea ever. Just use a mailbox.

The A Number One most important part of free and fair elections is that
ballots are ALWAYS in custody of a responsible person after the voter
has voted it. UNATTENDED ballot box means fraud.
suzeeq
2020-09-03 23:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
If they're set up outside the election office, or city hall, they should
be real.
I cannot emphasize enough -- I've already said it a dozen times on
Usenet -- that an UNATTENDED ballot box is not a ballot box. The
location is irrelevant. The only legitimate ballot box might be at an
early voting location during hours in which it is attended.
This is the stupidest idea ever. Just use a mailbox.
The A Number One most important part of free and fair elections is that
ballots are ALWAYS in custody of a responsible person after the voter
has voted it. UNATTENDED ballot box means fraud.
But what about unattened postal drop boxes?
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-04 01:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
If they're set up outside the election office, or city hall, they should
be real.
I cannot emphasize enough -- I've already said it a dozen times on
Usenet -- that an UNATTENDED ballot box is not a ballot box. The
location is irrelevant. The only legitimate ballot box might be at an
early voting location during hours in which it is attended.
This is the stupidest idea ever. Just use a mailbox.
The A Number One most important part of free and fair elections is that
ballots are ALWAYS in custody of a responsible person after the voter
has voted it. UNATTENDED ballot box means fraud.
But what about unattened postal drop boxes?
It seems unlikely breaking into a street collection box is a good way to
steal ballots. You may not even find one.
suzeeq
2020-09-04 04:37:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
If they're set up outside the election office, or city hall, they should
be real.
I cannot emphasize enough -- I've already said it a dozen times on
Usenet -- that an UNATTENDED ballot box is not a ballot box. The
location is irrelevant. The only legitimate ballot box might be at an
early voting location during hours in which it is attended.
This is the stupidest idea ever. Just use a mailbox.
The A Number One most important part of free and fair elections is that
ballots are ALWAYS in custody of a responsible person after the voter
has voted it. UNATTENDED ballot box means fraud.
But what about unattened postal drop boxes?
It seems unlikely breaking into a street collection box is a good way to
steal ballots. You may not even find one.
I was thinking of the ones outside the post office. Every tax day the
local tv news used to show people driving up to drop off their returns
befor midnight. Presumably there was someone working to collect them.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-04 04:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by suzeeq
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
If they're set up outside the election office, or city hall, they should
be real.
I cannot emphasize enough -- I've already said it a dozen times on
Usenet -- that an UNATTENDED ballot box is not a ballot box. The
location is irrelevant. The only legitimate ballot box might be at an
early voting location during hours in which it is attended.
This is the stupidest idea ever. Just use a mailbox.
The A Number One most important part of free and fair elections is that
ballots are ALWAYS in custody of a responsible person after the voter
has voted it. UNATTENDED ballot box means fraud.
But what about unattened postal drop boxes?
It seems unlikely breaking into a street collection box is a good way to
steal ballots. You may not even find one.
I was thinking of the ones outside the post office. Every tax day the
local tv news used to show people driving up to drop off their returns
befor midnight. Presumably there was someone working to collect them.
That's an unlikely place a collection box would be broken into. It's not
impossible but unlikely in the extreme.

Not so with an unattended ballot box.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-09-03 19:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
That's one of the problems.
The following is me paraphrasing a retired USPS worker paraphrasing a
colleague who still works with the USPS. I'm not supposed to use names,
so I'm sure that means that it will be dismissed out of hand by some,
and for once, I can understand that, but I swear by my guy, and he
swears by his.
To preface, given that the number of poll workers has declined (most are
over 60, and many do not want to risk exposure to the virus this year),
and given that the desire to vote by mail is likely to increase during a
pandemic, any slowing of the mail service is a cause for concern, and
yes, even for suspicion. Now, the amount of publicity given to
individual problems may not be commensurate with the threat each problem
There haven't been enough poll workers since forever. It's a 15 hour
day, plus additional training. A lot of people just don't like getting
up at 3:30 am.
Yes, but fear of dying from the pandemic doesn't help matters.
We lost our polling site at the last minute: A nursing home. This was
actually stupid because it literally disenfranchised all the residents,
none of whom were brought to the new location. It would have been safer
for them to vote in their own building than in another location.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
6) Finally, probably the most visible but least concerning problem is
corner mailboxes being taken out of service. This has been going on for
decades ever since the mass adoption of email. Maaaaybe more are being
taken out of service than is warranted by traffic, but there's no place
that's reporting that they no longer have a way to send mail out, so
this one's overblown.
Any voter on a city or rural routes can always mail from his own mailbox
and that has nothing to do with street-collection boxs.
Not everyone has outgoing mail at their place of residence. Speaking
from personal experience, I'm sure many others share, options for
incoming and outgoing mail varies *greatly* depending on where you live.
Hold it.

A letter carrier takes outbound mail. Period. There is no argument on
this point. That's his job. It's the resident's responsibility to
provide the mailbox, not the post office's.

I've lived in places with different types of mailboxes, or no mailboxes.
Outbound mail is simply a matter of leaving it in a location visible to
the carrier. If there's a doorslot, which isn't legally a mailbox for
the Postal Express (First-Class Mail monopoly) statutes, the carrier
will take outbound mail if it's left sticking halfway out.

If the landlord in multi-family housing has provided letterbox
recepticles for each apartment, there may not be an open recepticle for
outbound mail. Solution? Cut-down cardboard box with a sign that reads
"Outbound Mail". The carrier will take the mail.

Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault for
failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.

On a rural route, did you know that one can leave unstamped mail with
change for exact postage, and the letter carrier will provide the stamp?
The reason is the vast distance in a rural area to the post office.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
I have been voting by mail since I turned 18. I have never in my life
gone to a physical polling location to vote. But this year I will
either go to my local office or *maybe* use a county ballot box. I've
never seen one of these ballot boxes before, but my county says they
will have them. But I'm still very much on the fence about using one,
especially with he possibility of fake ballot boxes.
I think you should stick with voting by mail. An unattended ballot box
is the stupidest idea anyone has ever come up with.

I don't usually vote by mail but at in-person early voting sites. For
the primary, I decided to vote by mail because of my state's bedsheet
ballot for judges, so it makes it easier to look them up at home.
Because it's piss off Trump, I'm voting by mail again for November.
The Horny Goat
2020-10-18 14:11:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 19:26:35 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault for
failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.
I haven't mailed from my home neighbourhood in years.

Of course the fact that we have a collection box less than 10' from
the front door of my store might have something to do with that ;)
shawn
2020-10-18 15:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 19:26:35 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault for
failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.
I haven't mailed from my home neighbourhood in years.
Of course the fact that we have a collection box less than 10' from
the front door of my store might have something to do with that ;)
Same here as there are two sets of mailboxes with collection boxes in
the apartment complex. So no need to walk to the official USPS
collection box that's about 300 yards from where I'm sitting (in an
office park.)
Adam H. Kerman
2020-10-18 16:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by shawn
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault for
failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.
I haven't mailed from my home neighbourhood in years.
Of course the fact that we have a collection box less than 10' from
the front door of my store might have something to do with that ;)
Same here as there are two sets of mailboxes with collection boxes in
the apartment complex. So no need to walk to the official USPS
collection box that's about 300 yards from where I'm sitting (in an
office park.)
That was the very point I was making to Arthur earlier in the thread.
Management of your apartment complex provided a place to leave outbound
letters, so as long as you've put the outbound letter in that slot
before the carrier serves your complex, your letter will be picked up
the same day.

Everyone who has provided a mailbox has a place to mail a letter from.
Micky DuPree
2020-10-30 05:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by shawn
Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 19:26:35 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault
for failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.
I haven't mailed from my home neighbourhood in years.
Of course the fact that we have a collection box less than 10' from
the front door of my store might have something to do with that ;)
Same here as there are two sets of mailboxes with collection boxes in
the apartment complex. So no need to walk to the official USPS
collection box that's about 300 yards from where I'm sitting (in an
office park.)
It's simply not true that everyone can send outgoing mail from their
apartment mailbox. Where I lived four years ago in Massachusetts, which
was a large mid-Victorian house converted into six apartments, there was
no way to leave outgoing mail to be collected. When I moved in, I asked
the carrier straight up if there was a way for me to leave outgoing mail
that he would pick up, and he said no. The only way would be for a
complete and radical replacement of the building's group mailbox (which
I think dated back to the '80s) with some other design, which the
landlord was under no legal obligation to buy and install, and which he
had no desire to buy and install. This was common in my neighborhood.

There was a USPS dropbox that was a four-minute walk away. That was
considered to be our outgoing service. Some people lived ten to twelve
minutes away -- each way -- from the nearest mailbox. I think most
people got into the habit, as I did, of dropping mail off at a USPS box
on the way to the subway station, the grocery store, or at work.

People in newer suburban subdivisions seem to be increasingly forced
into having their group mailboxes staggered on the street outside to
save the USPS money, but they do have a place to leave outgoing mail.

I contrast both of these examples with a friend who inherited a 1950s
suburban house that still has an actual mail slot, and who is allowed to
leave outgoing mail between the front door and the storm door. She gets
both incoming and outgoing mail without ever even having to open the
storm door and let the elements inside. Her mail carrier still goes
from individual door to individual door to individual door in her
neighborhood. There are definitely different tiers of mail service in
this country.

-Micky
Adam H. Kerman
2020-10-30 06:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Micky DuPree
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault
for failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.
It's simply not true that everyone can send outgoing mail from their
apartment mailbox.
You really have a reading comprehension problem. EVERYBODY has outgoing
mail pickup service from their letter carrier. EVERYBODY. There are
simply no exceptions (without getting into packages).

The addressee is required to provide an appropriate mailbox to have
outgoing mail collected.
Post by Micky DuPree
Where I lived four years ago in Massachusetts, which was a large
mid-Victorian house converted into six apartments, there was no way
to leave outgoing mail to be collected. When I moved in, I asked the
carrier straight up if there was a way for me to leave outgoing mail that
he would pick up, and he said no. The only way would be for a complete
and radical replacement of the building's group mailbox (which I think
dated back to the '80s) with some other design, which the landlord was
under no legal obligation to buy and install, and which he had no desire
to buy and install. This was common in my neighborhood.
All you had to do was put a small table in the lobby with a letter tray
labeled "outgoing mail" and the carrier would have collected it. If your
landlord cooperated, a small mailbox or letter tray could have been
mounted on a wall, labeled "outgoing mail".

It's not the post office's responsibility to provide the mailbox. It's
the homeowner's or landlord's responsibility. Nevertheless, everybody has
mail collection service. This is universal.
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
Arthur Lipscomb
2020-10-31 05:18:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault
for failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.
It's simply not true that everyone can send outgoing mail from their
apartment mailbox.
You really have a reading comprehension problem. EVERYBODY has outgoing
mail pickup service from their letter carrier. EVERYBODY. There are
simply no exceptions (without getting into packages).
I'm going to try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't
trolling or being contrary for the sake of being contrary.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The addressee is required to provide an appropriate mailbox to have
outgoing mail collected.
No one disputes a mail carrier will take a letter if it's handed to
them. What people are saying is some houses do not come pre-equipped
with an outgoing mail option and some do. You've changed the subject
from some houses don't already have an outgoing mail option to now the
home owner is responsible for providing one. This ignores the fact that
if someone has a house with only a slit to put mail in, then there is no
practical way for the mail to go out. We are talking about *existing*
structures, not some hypothetical thing someone could build.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
Where I lived four years ago in Massachusetts, which was a large
mid-Victorian house converted into six apartments, there was no way
to leave outgoing mail to be collected. When I moved in, I asked the
carrier straight up if there was a way for me to leave outgoing mail that
he would pick up, and he said no. The only way would be for a complete
and radical replacement of the building's group mailbox (which I think
dated back to the '80s) with some other design, which the landlord was
under no legal obligation to buy and install, and which he had no desire
to buy and install. This was common in my neighborhood.
All you had to do was put a small table in the lobby with a letter tray
labeled "outgoing mail"
Shouldn't it also say "Please don't steal?"
As I recall when this conversation started it was about a secure mailbox
bolted to the ground or in the alternative a secure outgoing mail option
provided by the USPS or maybe built into the structure next to the
mailboxes. A small table is not even close to a substitute.

and the carrier would have collected it. If your
Post by Adam H. Kerman
landlord cooperated, a small mailbox or letter tray could have been
mounted on a wall, labeled "outgoing mail".
It's not the post office's responsibility to provide the mailbox. It's
the homeowner's or landlord's responsibility. Nevertheless, everybody has
mail collection service. This is universal.
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
Adam H. Kerman
2020-10-31 06:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Of course there should be street collection boxes. They used to be
placed so a reasonable number of people were within a short walk of
them. All I'm pointing out is that everyone who claims, "My letter
carrier won't collect my outgoing mail!" is lying. They are at fault
for failing to provide a place to leave outbound mail.
It's simply not true that everyone can send outgoing mail from their
apartment mailbox.
You really have a reading comprehension problem. EVERYBODY has outgoing
mail pickup service from their letter carrier. EVERYBODY. There are
simply no exceptions (without getting into packages).
I'm going to try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't
trolling or being contrary for the sake of being contrary.
A postal carrier's job -- city carrier, rural carrier, contract carrier
-- is to pick up and deliver mail. Every single one of them collects
mail. It is the obligation of the addressee to provide the mailbox in
order to take advantage of mail collection.

In the case of apartment letter boxes, I agree: The letter boxes, unless
they happen to have an empty slot, don't have a place to leave mail for
collection. So provide a place to leave mail next to the letter boxes,
like a small table. Big deal.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The addressee is required to provide an appropriate mailbox to have
outgoing mail collected.
No one disputes a mail carrier will take a letter if it's handed to
them.
Not talking about that. All I'm saying is that anyone can find a place
to leave mail for collection for the carrier to take because everyone
has mail collection service.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
What people are saying is some houses do not come pre-equipped
with an outgoing mail option and some do.
It's the homeowner's responsibility to provide the mailbox, not the post
office.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
You've changed the subject from some houses don't already have an outgoing
mail option to now the home owner is responsible for providing one.
I haven't changed the subject at all. I've been saying the same thing
all along: As part of universal mail service, everybody has mail
collection service from the mailbox they provide. No mailbox? No
colleciton.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
This ignores the fact that if someone has a house with only a slit to
put mail in, then there is no practical way for the mail to go out.
My last place had a door slot. I left mail for collection sticking out
of the door slot. The carrier figured it out. Weirdly, every building on
both sides of the block were from the same pre-WWI era, door slots and
letter boxes. Apparently the landlady was supposed to sort the mail and
place it in the letter boxes instead of the carrier doing it. No one had
keys for the letter boxes any longer and they weren't used when I lived
there.

For the purpose of the postal monopoly on First-Class Mail, btw, a door
slot isn't legally a mailbox.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
We are talking about *existing* structures, not some hypothetical thing
someone could build.
Why would anyone insist that a proper mailbox so that one's mail can be
collected couldn't be provided with a structure of any age?
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
Where I lived four years ago in Massachusetts, which was a large
mid-Victorian house converted into six apartments, there was no way
to leave outgoing mail to be collected. When I moved in, I asked the
carrier straight up if there was a way for me to leave outgoing mail that
he would pick up, and he said no. The only way would be for a complete
and radical replacement of the building's group mailbox (which I think
dated back to the '80s) with some other design, which the landlord was
under no legal obligation to buy and install, and which he had no desire
to buy and install. This was common in my neighborhood.
All you had to do was put a small table in the lobby with a letter tray
labeled "outgoing mail"
Shouldn't it also say "Please don't steal?"
What can I tell you. Most mailboxes aren't locked, so a table is the
same as an unlocked mailbox for collection purposes.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
As I recall when this conversation started it was about a secure mailbox
bolted to the ground or in the alternative a secure outgoing mail option
provided by the USPS or maybe built into the structure next to the
mailboxes. A small table is not even close to a substitute.
You're right. It's not. If security is concerned, then yeah, mail from a
street collection box.

As far as I know, I haven't had mail stolen ever. If the outgoing mail
is ready in the morning, I leave it for the carrier. In the afternoon, I
take it to the post office.

I almost never have occassion to use a street collection box as so many
have vanished.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
and the carrier would have collected it. If your
landlord cooperated, a small mailbox or letter tray could have been
mounted on a wall, labeled "outgoing mail".
It's not the post office's responsibility to provide the mailbox. It's
the homeowner's or landlord's responsibility. Nevertheless, everybody has
mail collection service. This is universal.
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
Arthur Lipscomb
2020-10-31 17:34:03 UTC
Permalink
snip
Post by Adam H. Kerman
What can I tell you. Most mailboxes aren't locked, so a table is the
same as an unlocked mailbox for collection purposes.
What I can tell you is that in my 40+ years on this planet, I think I've
over ever seen one outgoing mail slot that wasn't locked, not counting
an outgoing mail tray that an office might have. I'm not saying that's
how it is everywhere or even most places. Just in my life experience,
outgoing mail is with some exceptions, usually secure.

Actually it just occurred to me that you may also be talking about those
standalone mailboxes that old movies from the 50s show people living in
rural areas using. They have the little crank on the side. I just
remembered I lived somewhere with one of those once (but no crank on the
side). They did *not* take outgoing mail from it / them. It stands out
in my mind now because where I live now we have a community box and they
do take outgoing mail directly from my mail slot. This is the first
time I've lived somewhere, where they take my outgoing mail from my
mailbox, but each slot is individual and locks. Previously I lived
somewhere else with a community box, but they didn't take mail from the
individual boxes, instead there was a secure outgoing mail slot built
into it. Two different community mailboxes, two different experiences
for how outgoing mail worked. In both cases, it is secure.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
As I recall when this conversation started it was about a secure mailbox
bolted to the ground or in the alternative a secure outgoing mail option
provided by the USPS or maybe built into the structure next to the
mailboxes. A small table is not even close to a substitute.
You're right. It's not. If security is concerned, then yeah, mail from a
street collection box.
Yes, security is usually a concern when it comes to mail. As far as I
know I've never had an box stolen off my front porch. Yet every other
week I get a video from ring neighborhood showing someone either
stilling a package off a front porch or breaking into a mailbox. These
things happen and are a concern for people.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
As far as I know, I haven't had mail stolen ever.
Just a few months ago someone broke into the locked community mailbox.
The box happens to sit directly in front of my house (I had a garage
camera installed as a result). They physically pried the metal back
open to get into it and steal the mail. This sort of thing happens all
the time. I don't know if they got any of my mail or not (I'm 99% sure
they did not), but mail was definitely stolen out of it. Mail theft if
a real thing. And a concern for a lot of people.



If the outgoing mail
Post by Adam H. Kerman
is ready in the morning, I leave it for the carrier. In the afternoon, I
take it to the post office.
I almost never have occassion to use a street collection box as so many
have vanished.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
and the carrier would have collected it. If your
landlord cooperated, a small mailbox or letter tray could have been
mounted on a wall, labeled "outgoing mail".
It's not the post office's responsibility to provide the mailbox. It's
the homeowner's or landlord's responsibility. Nevertheless, everybody has
mail collection service. This is universal.
. . .
After the community mailbox in my neighborhood was broken into, the post
office provided a replacement. One day when I was at the post office to
pick up the mail, they gave me my key to it. They said the new box is
better than the old one with a design that makes it much harder for
someone to break into. Hopefully their right.
suzeeq
2020-10-31 17:42:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by The Horny Goat
Thu, 3 Sep 2020 19:26:35 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
snip
Post by Adam H. Kerman
What can I tell you. Most mailboxes aren't locked, so a table is the
same as an unlocked mailbox for collection purposes.
What I can tell you is that in my 40+ years on this planet, I think I've
over ever seen one outgoing mail slot that wasn't locked, not counting
an outgoing mail tray that an office might have. I'm not saying that's
how it is everywhere or even most places. Just in my life experience,
outgoing mail is with some exceptions, usually secure.
Actually it just occurred to me that you may also be talking about those
standalone mailboxes that old movies from the 50s show people living in
rural areas using. They have the little crank on the side. I just
remembered I lived somewhere with one of those once (but no crank on the
side). They did *not* take outgoing mail from it / them. It stands out
They're called a flag, not a crank. You put outgoing mail in the box,
and put the flag up so the carrier knew that, and would check instead of
just shoving the mail delivery in without looking. Also alerted him if
he didn't have incoming mail for the box.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
in my mind now because where I live now we have a community box and they
do take outgoing mail directly from my mail slot. This is the first
time I've lived somewhere, where they take my outgoing mail from my
mailbox, but each slot is individual and locks. Previously I lived
somewhere else with a community box, but they didn't take mail from the
individual boxes, instead there was a secure outgoing mail slot built
into it. Two different community mailboxes, two different experiences
for how outgoing mail worked. In both cases, it is secure.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-10-31 18:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
snip
Post by Adam H. Kerman
What can I tell you. Most mailboxes aren't locked, so a table is the
same as an unlocked mailbox for collection purposes.
What I can tell you is that in my 40+ years on this planet, I think I've
over ever seen one outgoing mail slot that wasn't locked, not counting
an outgoing mail tray that an office might have. I'm not saying that's
how it is everywhere or even most places. Just in my life experience,
outgoing mail is with some exceptions, usually secure.
The post office calls the key they use an arrow key. One arrow key
unlocks every street collection box and apartment building mailbox in
the entire delivery area of a post office (or station or branch if those
are facilities that carriers are dispatched from). If a lost arrow key
cannot be found, they are required to re-key every single lock.

The only time I've seen a locked outgoing letter slot is if the
apartment building mailbox or neighborhood cluster box has an unused
slot that gets used for outgoing letters.

A single mailbox for a single-family home cannot have an arrow key lock
by standard. Homeowners who have their own locking mailboxes use their
own key. The box has a slot that's wide enough for letters and flats,
but since the carrier doesn't unlock it, they'd have to leave the
outgoing mail sticking out of the slot or something.

Right now, I've just got an unlocked mailbox at the front door. I still
leave mail to be collected sticking out so the carrier can't pretend he
didn't see it.

You leave outgoing mail sticking out so the carrier can see it. If the
carrier doesn't spot outgoing mail and he's not delivering mail to that
address that day, he doesn't have to check the box. Even when the
carrier delivers mail, there are some lazy carriers who avoid making the
extra effort to check for mail to be collected.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Actually it just occurred to me that you may also be talking about those
standalone mailboxes that old movies from the 50s show people living in
rural areas using. They have the little crank on the side. I just
remembered I lived somewhere with one of those once (but no crank on the
side). They did *not* take outgoing mail from it / them.
Any such mailbox erected at the street can be used for mail collection.
A standards-compliant mailbox has a flag (not a crank). If there's mail
to be collected, one raises the flag because the carrier doesn't stop
if he's not making a delivery. The carrier collects the mail and lowers
the flag. Note that on a rural route but not a city route, one can leave
exact change to pay for postage as rural carriers sell stamps as part of
their duties.

In that location, all you had to do was install a standard mailbox with
the flag. Then your mail would have been collected. Repeating myself
yet again: If the standard mailbox is provided by the homeowner, every
homeowner receives mail collection service.

A rural route is a little different from a city route. Rural route isn't
just for rural areas. Farms may have been subdivided into single family
homes, but the post office doesn't necessarily convert the routes to
city delivery. The rural route is established. A nearby resident is
required to erect his mailbox along the route. It may be across the
street from his property or it may be along the closest through rural
road.

In any subdivision built since 1964, including areas with city
delivery, the mailboxes are required to be erected along the street. The
main difference between rural and city delivery, from the homeowner's
perspective, is that a rural typically serves just one side of the
street while the city route would typically serve both sides. Until the
1990s, the post office would pay for or subsidize the installation of
cluster boxes but they long stopped doing that, given associated
maintenance costs. They simply wanted to end the practice of city
carriers "looping the block" (parking once on a given block and walking
around to serve both sides of the street), bringing mail to the front
door of the house.

On a block on which the carrier loops, new homes can still be built with
the mailbox at the front door; mailbox erected at the street is optional.
A standard mailbox at the front door of the home doesn't have a flag.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
It stands out in my mind now because where I live now we have a community
box and they do take outgoing mail directly from my mail slot. This is
the first time I've lived somewhere, where they take my outgoing mail
from my mailbox, but each slot is individual and locks. Previously I
lived somewhere else with a community box, but they didn't take mail
from the individual boxes, instead there was a secure outgoing mail
slot built into it. Two different community mailboxes, two different
experiences for how outgoing mail worked. In both cases, it is secure.
Fair enough. The post office loves apartment building mailboxes and
cluster mailboxes as you describe because the delivery point serves
multiple residences.

I've seen subdivisions of multifamily housing with cluster boxes for
each building clusted together in one spot. The carrier doesn't deliver
to an apartment mailbox for each building. I'd hate that if I lived
there but for the post office, it's the next best thing to an area with
a community post office but no established delivery routes.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
Just a few months ago someone broke into the locked community mailbox.
The box happens to sit directly in front of my house (I had a garage
camera installed as a result). They physically pried the metal back
open to get into it and steal the mail. This sort of thing happens all
the time. I don't know if they got any of my mail or not (I'm 99% sure
they did not), but mail was definitely stolen out of it. Mail theft if
a real thing. And a concern for a lot of people.
That stinks. People can be assholes.
Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
After the community mailbox in my neighborhood was broken into, the post
office provided a replacement. One day when I was at the post office to
pick up the mail, they gave me my key to it. They said the new box is
better than the old one with a design that makes it much harder for
someone to break into. Hopefully their right.
Ah. That's nice that the post office made an effort to improve things.
The Horny Goat
2020-11-02 06:31:07 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 05:07:08 +0000 (UTC),
Post by Micky DuPree
There was a USPS dropbox that was a four-minute walk away. That was
considered to be our outgoing service. Some people lived ten to twelve
minutes away -- each way -- from the nearest mailbox. I think most
people got into the habit, as I did, of dropping mail off at a USPS box
on the way to the subway station, the grocery store, or at work.
People in newer suburban subdivisions seem to be increasingly forced
into having their group mailboxes staggered on the street outside to
save the USPS money, but they do have a place to leave outgoing mail.
Yup - sounds like Canadian practice as well. I never mail letters from
home as our closest box is two blocks away (adjacent to a bus stop).

Instead I take them to work where we have a red pickup box less than
10' from our store's front door at the curb.

The Horny Goat
2020-10-18 05:42:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 08:50:59 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
There haven't been enough poll workers since forever. It's a 15 hour
day, plus additional training. A lot of people just don't like getting
up at 3:30 am.
My son is an election day poll supervisor and says he's expecting to
make just under $700 for the day. That a supervisor's base pay is
about $500 but that they get paid for use of their personal cell phone
and vehicle.
The Horny Goat
2020-10-18 05:44:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 08:50:59 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Micky DuPree
When you're talking
about potentially millions of ballots, that's a discouraging measure for
already cash-strapped states, who might be forced to cut back on mail-in
ballots to save money.
They can't do that either unless they change state law.
Obviously not but I am skeptical there are constitutional restrictions
on what class of mail has to be used for a mail ballot. (Which is not
surprising since there was no mail service as we know it in 1776 and
none of the amendments mention mail)
Micky DuPree
2020-10-30 04:39:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 08:50:59 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
When you're talking about potentially millions of ballots, that's a
discouraging measure for already cash-strapped states, who might be
forced to cut back on mail-in ballots to save money.
They can't do that either unless they change state law.
Not impossible, though I thankfully haven't heard of anyone doing that.
Post by The Horny Goat
Obviously not but I am skeptical there are constitutional restrictions
on what class of mail has to be used for a mail ballot. (Which is not
surprising since there was no mail service as we know it in 1776 and
none of the amendments mention mail)
There are no such constitutional restrictions. Most of what comes down
to us today about how states conduct federal elections is a hodgepodge
of state laws and customs, but in this case, also the USPS recognition
of the non-profit status of electoral ballots.

-Micky
Adam H. Kerman
2020-10-30 06:11:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Micky DuPree
. . .
Post by The Horny Goat
Obviously not but I am skeptical there are constitutional restrictions
on what class of mail has to be used for a mail ballot. (Which is not
surprising since there was no mail service as we know it in 1776 and
none of the amendments mention mail)
There are no such constitutional restrictions. Most of what comes down
to us today about how states conduct federal elections is a hodgepodge
of state laws and customs, but in this case, also the USPS recognition
of the non-profit status of electoral ballots.
This is wrong.

Ballots are mailed and returned as First-Class Mail. Some states allow
return ballots to be sent as Business Reply Mail, which is also
First-Class Mail plus processing and accounting fees.

National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (Motor Voter Act) allows
specific kinds of election materials to be sent at Nonprofit rates, but
not ballots. These include canvass by mail and informational mailings,
like the explanation of a referendum, and bulk mailings of verification
of registration cards (generally done as a canvass by mail) and polling
place information.
super70s
2020-10-30 09:35:05 UTC
Permalink
Most of what comes down to us today about how states conduct federal
elections is a hodgepodge of state laws and customs
When it comes to the presidential election every state should be
required to follow universal federal guidelines IMO.

Maybe this can be explored when/if the Republicans are in the minority
in every branch of government because they thrive on all the confusion.
Adam H. Kerman
2020-10-30 09:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by super70s
Most of what comes down to us today about how states conduct federal
elections is a hodgepodge of state laws and customs
When it comes to the presidential election every state should be
required to follow universal federal guidelines IMO.
And states do follow both Motor Voter and Help America Vote Act
requirements, both of which have civil rights aspects, not to mention
the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

There's already quite a bit dictated in federal law. You really don't
want any more.
Post by super70s
Maybe this can be explored when/if the Republicans are in the minority
in every branch of government because they thrive on all the confusion.
It's not confusing. You're supposed to be subject to the election code
of just one state, so who cares about variations with another state?

You're a fool.
The Horny Goat
2020-10-18 05:40:15 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 05:54:26 +0000 (UTC),
Post by Micky DuPree
That's one of the problems.
The following is me paraphrasing a retired USPS worker paraphrasing a
colleague who still works with the USPS. I'm not supposed to use names,
so I'm sure that means that it will be dismissed out of hand by some,
and for once, I can understand that, but I swear by my guy, and he
swears by his.
To preface, given that the number of poll workers has declined (most are
over 60, and many do not want to risk exposure to the virus this year),
and given that the desire to vote by mail is likely to increase during a
pandemic, any slowing of the mail service is a cause for concern, and
yes, even for suspicion. Now, the amount of publicity given to
individual problems may not be commensurate with the threat each problem
1) Elimination of some class-based mail priority. When time and
resources were limited, express mail, priority package mail, and
first-class letter mail used to be given priority over first-class
package mail, third-class bulk mail, retail ground mail, and media mail
packages. Now nothing below priority package rate gets priority.
Voting ballots, sent out via first-class letter mail, used to be given
the highest priority. Now if there's too much mail to sort in one day,
ballots could be held back along with the third-class advertising
flyers. Even if your ballot is delayed by only one day more than usual,
if your ballot misses your state's deadline, that's just tough.
2) The Postmaster General is talking about eliminating the non-profit
postage rate for states to mail ballots out to voters, meaning an
increase from 20 cents per ballot to 55 cents. When you're talking
about potentially millions of ballots, that's a discouraging measure for
already cash-strapped states, who might be forced to cut back on mail-in
ballots to save money. After all, if both conservative and liberal
nonprofits are allowed to use the cheaper rate to urge you to vote, then
why shouldn't the ballots themselves benefit from the same nonprofit
rate?
3) Cutting out routine overtime hours. Overtime hours used to be a
routine way to deal with higher fluctuations in mail volume. The
elimination of overtime hours at processing facilities is already
leading to backlogs, and the ballots haven't even gone out yet.
4) Less dramatic, but still making a difference is hand-sorting in many
places has been moved from something that carriers do in the mornings
before their routes to something they do in the evening when they're
done with their routes. A lot of state ballots fall into this category
because they're too bulky to be machine-sorted. It's only a single
extra day of delay each way for the ballots, but again, when deadlines
are rigorously enforced, it will make a difference.
5) Reductions in mail-sorting machines. It's true this has been
overblown, primarily because it's one of the more visible measures
that's been going on. Some of those machines being taken out of
commission are just routinely being serviced, replaced, or
decommissioned, so no, there's nothing qualitatively out of the ordinary
about that. But the overall number of decommissioned machines is
concerning when you're looking at a predicted rise in electoral demand
coming up.
6) Finally, probably the most visible but least concerning problem is
corner mailboxes being taken out of service. This has been going on for
decades ever since the mass adoption of email. Maaaaybe more are being
taken out of service than is warranted by traffic, but there's no place
that's reporting that they no longer have a way to send mail out, so
this one's overblown.
Taken together, though, these problems are rightfully seen as
impediments to the prompt delivery of ballots to voters requesting them,
and as impediments to the on-time return of those ballots to their local
election offices.
Micky speaking purely on her own now: Personally, if one can, and one's
state and local election office allow it, I'd recommend doing one of the
1) Vote early in person at one's local election office. Lines are
unlikely to be long if one votes before Election Day, so one can get in
and get out in an expeditious manner, and ease the strain on both voting
by mail and on in-person voting on Election Day.
2) If that still takes too much time away from work or childcare/
eldercare, most states allow one to simply drop off one's completed
absentee ballot in person at the election office (or sometimes a
designated dropbox), which also eases the strain on the mail system.
If one is confused about the procedure for validating one's absentee
ballot, one can ask for help at the election office before handing it
over.
3) If health, mobility, transportation, and/or childcare/eldercare
issues prevent you from going in person, vote by mail, but request your
absentee ballot as soon as you're allowed, and then send it back in as
soon as you're able. Avoid the last-minute rush. That last-minute rush
leads to delays that cause some ballots to miss their state's deadline.
Anything we can do to relieve the last-minute pressure -- for both
mail-in voting and for in-person voting on Election Day -- will help the
wheels of democracy turn more smoothly and make things safer for both
voters and poll workers.
None of this has anything to do with fraud via absentee ballots, which
is a wholly unsubstantiated allegation. It all comes down to the
practical logistics of processing a larger than usual volume of mail-in
ballots when the Postmaster General has instituted rules that increase
mail delays. The link below gives you a thorough breakdown of your
options. A full 36 states and D.C. allow you to vote by mail without
needing an excuse. An additional 9 states will allow you to use
avoidance of Covid-19 as your excuse to vote by mail this year. Only
6 states require an excuse to vote by mail yet will not allow Covid-19
to be your excuse.
Only 3 states do not allow early in-person voting of any kind.
Only 9 states do not provide a way for you to track your mail-in ballot
after it has been mailed. I admit, I would be a lot more uncomfortable
voting by mail in those states. I've previously voted by mail in
Florida, and it was reassuring to be able to go online and see that my
ballot had been both received and accepted as valid.
If you scroll down to your state, it will give you the deadlines to
register, to request a mail-in ballot, to send it back in, and it gives
you links to your state's election site for early in-person voting
details.
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/plan-your-vote-state-by-state-guide-voting-by-mail-early-in-person-voting-election/
-Micky
Interesting - we are having a provincial election next Saturday Oct 24
and have been told that while there's a mail ballot the ballots have
to be received by voting day.

My son (who is an election day supervisor - which is a paid position)
says they've made arrangements for delivery of ballots (which are only
accepted if in a specified envelope which is part of the 'vote by mail
package' will be delivered to each district office.

He says these are only processed AFTER the election day poll is
tallied and ONLY counted if there are more mail ballots than the
margin of victory for each district. (87 districts province wide with
a total population - not all voters - of 5.5 million)

Admittedly this is Canada so stateside "your mileage may vary"

He also says they are expecting a record number of mail ballots.(He
says he's heard how many mail ballots have been received inthe
district he's responsible for but no he can't say but expects the
majority of mail ballots have not yet been delivered - again for us
this election is a week away)

Incidentally our provincial health officer says that as far as she's
heard there's never been a recorded case of COVID transmission
transmitted solely by contact with paper products (this was said in
the context of school reopenings but clearly a letter containing a
ballot is no more infectious than a school book)
Micky DuPree
2020-10-30 04:25:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
Interesting - we are having a provincial election next Saturday Oct 24
and have been told that while there's a mail ballot the ballots have
to be received by voting day.
My son (who is an election day supervisor - which is a paid position)
says they've made arrangements for delivery of ballots (which are only
accepted if in a specified envelope which is part of the 'vote by mail
package' will be delivered to each district office.
He says these are only processed AFTER the election day poll is
tallied and ONLY counted if there are more mail ballots than the
margin of victory for each district. (87 districts province wide with
a total population - not all voters - of 5.5 million)
That's kind of sad, though, that not every vote may get counted even if
it wouldn't change the outcome.
Post by The Horny Goat
Admittedly this is Canada so stateside "your mileage may vary"
As with so much pertaining to federal elections in the U.S., the mileage
varies by state. Different states have different deadlines for the
arrival of ballots, and have different rules for when the counting of
early ballots may begin. The only things they all agree on are that you
can't initiate a ballot, whether by mail or in person, after the federal
election date (although if you're in line at closing time, they're
supposed to let you vote), and no state releases the tabulation of votes
before that date even if they've been counting them early.
Post by The Horny Goat
He also says they are expecting a record number of mail ballots.(He
says he's heard how many mail ballots have been received inthe
district he's responsible for but no he can't say but expects the
majority of mail ballots have not yet been delivered - again for us
this election is a week away)
Incidentally our provincial health officer says that as far as she's
heard there's never been a recorded case of COVID transmission
transmitted solely by contact with paper products (this was said in
the context of school reopenings but clearly a letter containing a
ballot is no more infectious than a school book)
From what I've read, surface transmission isn't impossible, but it's
very rare outside of a healthcare setting. The one case study of
fomite transmission that I've read was some clever detective work in a
hospital that was treating COVID patients. But in, for example, a
grocery store, you're unlikely to get much of a viral load from picking
up an item on a shelf. I wear nitrile gloves when I go out, but I think
their primary benefit is in reminding me not to touch my face.

-Micky
The Horny Goat
2020-11-02 06:26:00 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 04:25:43 +0000 (UTC),
Post by Micky DuPree
As with so much pertaining to federal elections in the U.S., the mileage
varies by state. Different states have different deadlines for the
arrival of ballots, and have different rules for when the counting of
early ballots may begin. The only things they all agree on are that you
can't initiate a ballot, whether by mail or in person, after the federal
election date (although if you're in line at closing time, they're
supposed to let you vote), and no state releases the tabulation of votes
before that date even if they've been counting them early.
What happens in Canadian elections is that at the close of polling an
election worker gets in line while the rest of them try to get the
people ahead of their worker into the voting room rather than outside.
Once all are inside the doors are locked except for one door which is
used for those who were in line at closnig time who have now voted and
are leaving. But no one is allowed to join the line after the election
worker has joined the line.

Only when all have voted and exited are all doors locked and counting
begins.

What I've just described is how they did it 30 years ago when I was a
scrutineer and how my son (who has worked both federal and provincial
elections which in Canada are held at different times) tells me it is
still done. Everything is done with paper ballots and counting takes
place quickly.

When I did it we counted 1500 ballots manually 3 times each in 90
minutes.
The Horny Goat
2020-11-02 06:27:32 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 04:25:43 +0000 (UTC),
Post by Micky DuPree
From what I've read, surface transmission isn't impossible, but it's
very rare outside of a healthcare setting. The one case study of
fomite transmission that I've read was some clever detective work in a
hospital that was treating COVID patients. But in, for example, a
grocery store, you're unlikely to get much of a viral load from picking
up an item on a shelf. I wear nitrile gloves when I go out, but I think
their primary benefit is in reminding me not to touch my face.
Heck a couple of drops of tobasco in your sanitizer would remind you
not to touch your face at a fraction of the cost of gloves!
Adam H. Kerman
2020-08-22 15:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in
the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
Rich, as always, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

There is a universal service mandate in law. Because of that, there's no
private sector interest. USPS's does not have a monopoly in packages.
The competitors DO NOT want to deliver to low density rural areas. Guess
who solves the "last mile" problem for competitors. That's right: It's
the post office. In parts of the country with too little density for
package delivery, they give it to the post office to be delivered by
rural carriers.

Also, Trump's man had little to do with removal of street collection
boxes. The post office has been doing that for years. They have a very
strict standard, which they are still applying during the current
recession, which is truly stupid, because the post office is leaving
nothing for the future once the recession ends.
trotsky
2020-08-22 18:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT WING
ASSHOLE. YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO YOU NEED
TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF. NOW.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
Post by RichA
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not needed.”
FPP
2020-08-22 20:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a LONG time
in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT WING
ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO YOU NEED
TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.

Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.

People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered by
the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.

All since DeJoy took over operations. During a fucking pandemic, when
it's risky to go outside.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
trotsky
2020-08-23 11:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a LONG time
in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT WING
ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO YOU
NEED TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.
Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.
People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered by
the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.
All since DeJoy took over operations.  During a fucking pandemic, when
it's risky to go outside.
Do you feel a sense outrage has been properly expressed by politicians
or the media?
FPP
2020-08-23 11:58:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?)
and all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a LONG
time in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT
WING ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO
YOU NEED TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.
Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.
People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered by
the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.
All since DeJoy took over operations.  During a fucking pandemic, when
it's risky to go outside.
Do you feel a sense outrage has been properly expressed by politicians
or the media?
Well, it has been getting a lot of attention... but until it affects
YOU, it isn't important.
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
FPP
2020-08-23 12:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?)
and all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a
LONG time in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will
help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT
WING ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO
YOU NEED TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not
needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.
Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.
People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered
by the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.
All since DeJoy took over operations.  During a fucking pandemic,
when it's risky to go outside.
Do you feel a sense outrage has been properly expressed by politicians
or the media?
Well, it has been getting a lot of attention... but until it affects
YOU, it isn't important.
Absolutely shameful!

ABC News: "The cremated remains of a U.S. Army veteran were delayed
reaching a Connecticut family in the mail, according to the late
veteran's family, and they say Postmaster General Louis DeJoy is to blame."
--
"Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history from Barack
Obama and Joe Biden...and then, like everything else he inherited, he
ran it straight into the ground." - Kamala Harris

"Leaders who have hidden in a bunker and gassed their own citizens
include Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and Donald [Bunker Bitch] Trump." -
Ben Wexler
REAL PRESIDENTS LEAD. REALITY TV PRESIDENTS DON'T.

Trump: "No, I don't take responsibility at all." - 3/13/20
trotsky
2020-08-23 12:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and
it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?)
and all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a
LONG time in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that
will help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT
WING ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME
SO YOU NEED TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not
needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.
Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.
People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered
by the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.
All since DeJoy took over operations.  During a fucking pandemic,
when it's risky to go outside.
Do you feel a sense outrage has been properly expressed by
politicians or the media?
Well, it has been getting a lot of attention... but until it affects
YOU, it isn't important.
Absolutely shameful!
ABC News:  "The cremated remains of a U.S. Army veteran were delayed
reaching a Connecticut family in the mail, according to the late
veteran's family, and they say Postmaster General Louis DeJoy is to blame."
And the criminal enterprise formerly known as the GOP just doesn't
fucking care.
trotsky
2020-08-23 12:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?)
and all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a
LONG time in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will
help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT
WING ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO
YOU NEED TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not
needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.
Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.
People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered
by the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.
All since DeJoy took over operations.  During a fucking pandemic,
when it's risky to go outside.
Do you feel a sense outrage has been properly expressed by politicians
or the media?
Well, it has been getting a lot of attention... but until it affects
YOU, it isn't important.
I've been buying tons of records online lately and I have one that was
shipped Aug. 1st that hasn't had the tracking updated for 20 days.
RichA
2020-08-24 01:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?)
and all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a
LONG time in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will
help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT
WING ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO
YOU NEED TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not
needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.
Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.
People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered
by the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.
All since DeJoy took over operations.  During a fucking pandemic,
when it's risky to go outside.
Do you feel a sense outrage has been properly expressed by politicians
or the media?
Well, it has been getting a lot of attention... but until it affects
YOU, it isn't important.
I've been buying tons of records online lately and I have one that was
shipped Aug. 1st that hasn't had the tracking updated for 20 days.
Purpose-run work-slowdowns. Post office is notorious for this.
trotsky
2020-08-24 19:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by FPP
Post by trotsky
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it
STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure.  He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?)
and all Hell breaks loose in short-order?  These problems are a
LONG time in the making.  PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will
help.
MORE THAN 600 SORTING MACHINES HAVE BEEN REMOVED YOU STUPID RIGHT
WING ASSHOLE.  YOU'RE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO BE IN A CONVO WITH ME SO
YOU NEED TO FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.  NOW.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/dejoy-says-usps-wont-reinstall-more-than-600-removed-mail-sorting-machines/
DeJoy Says USPS Won’t Reinstall More Than 600 Removed Mail Sorting Machines
“There’s no intention to do that,” DeJoy testified. “They’re not
needed.”
Food rotting in boxes at the Post Office.
Boxes of dead chicks meant for farmers lie rotting at the Post Office.
People who had to ration their meds (because they weren't delivered
by the Post Office) admitted to the hospital with seizures.
All since DeJoy took over operations.  During a fucking pandemic,
when it's risky to go outside.
Do you feel a sense outrage has been properly expressed by politicians
or the media?
Well, it has been getting a lot of attention... but until it affects
YOU, it isn't important.
I've been buying tons of records online lately and I have one that was
shipped Aug. 1st that hasn't had the tracking updated for 20 days.
Purpose-run work-slowdowns. Post office is notorious for this.
In Canada? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
David Johnston
2020-08-22 23:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
I suspect dismantling the sorting machines is having more of an impact.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/postal-service-email-tells-managers-not-to-reconnect-sorting-machines/article_d7d8aaf0-1175-5782-a0aa-81509728546d.html

It's a pretty good scam. Just sabotage the government service and then
point at it not working and demand it be privatized.
super70s
2020-08-27 06:10:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by RichA
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
Ha ha! SIX DAYS to get across the greater Los Angeles area and it STILL
isn't finished!!
That's because of Trump's puppet running it you stupid motherfucker.
Yeah, sure. He takes away some mailboxes (who uses them anyway?) and
all Hell breaks loose in short-order? These problems are a LONG time
in the making. PRIVATIZATION is the only thing that will help.
I suspect dismantling the sorting machines is having more of an impact.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/postal-service-email-tells-managers-not-to-reconnect-sorting-machines/article_d7d8aaf0-1175-5782-a0aa-81509728546d.html
It's a pretty good scam. Just sabotage the government service and then
point at it not working and demand it be privatized.
Recalls the old maxim "Republicans don't believe government works and
they exist to prove it's true."
RichA
2020-08-25 22:38:59 UTC
Permalink
One reason USPS out-of-country shipping is so hellishly expensive, the system was made for simpletons. They use a "3 box" system where you can ship whatever you can cram into a certain box size for the same price, up to a point. This saves the pinheads not having to figure out what something will cost to ship based on specific weight. Problem is, you can ship a 2lb item or a 10lb item for the same price, what should be the 10lb price! A ridiculous system, aped unsuccessfully by Canada Post who tried to f--- over people shipping light items internally within Canada only. So, with the American system, shipping a box weighing 2-3 lbs a couple hundred miles from New York state to Toronto can cost $65.00, about twice what shipping the other way costs.
trotsky
2020-08-26 10:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
One reason USPS out-of-country shipping is so hellishly expensive, the system was made for simpletons.
Are you on crack, asshole? It's far cheaper for me to ship to Canada
than vice versa. Just shut the fuck up already you stupid shit.
The Horny Goat
2020-08-29 03:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by trotsky
Post by RichA
One reason USPS out-of-country shipping is so hellishly expensive, the system was made for simpletons.
Are you on crack, asshole? It's far cheaper for me to ship to Canada
than vice versa. Just shut the fuck up already you stupid shit.
That in fact is why de facto US online sellers have a HUGE edge over
Canadian sellers particularly those who are 'bricks and mortar'
Shipping costs USA -> Canada are far lower than Canada -> US
The Horny Goat
2020-08-29 03:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
One reason USPS out-of-country shipping is so hellishly expensive, the system was made for simpletons. They use a "3 box" system where you can ship whatever you can cram into a certain box size for the same price, up to a point. This saves the pinheads not having to figure out what something will cost to ship based on specific weight. Problem is, you can ship a 2lb item or a 10lb item for the same price, what should be the 10lb price! A ridiculous system, aped unsuccessfully by Canada Post who tried to f--- over people shipping light items internally within Canada only. So, with the American system, shipping a box weighing 2-3 lbs a couple hundred miles from New York state to Toronto can cost $65.00, about twice what shipping the other way costs.
Canada Post ORIGINALLY offered an Expresspost pouch that would allow
anything that would fit into the pouch. Store owners like us stuffed
these pouches with stone beads (one of our key items) and I remember
one shipment where we stuffed one full of hematite beads which came to
about 20 lbs.

Eventually they decided they had offered too good a deal and announced
they REALLY intended these pouches for moving documents not
merchandise (after they collected their $$$ for the non returnable
pouches of course!) and restricted these pouches to 500gm maximum
weight and 5mm maximum thickness. Our store has something like about
$2000-3000 of these pouches on hand which we'll use eventually but not
nearly as fast as originally planned.
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