Discussion:
Law & Order "The Perfect Man" 10/10/2024 (spoilers)
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Adam H. Kerman
2024-10-14 05:39:25 UTC
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Essemtially, the audience was tricked into watching an episode of SVU. I
hate SVU with a passion.

The first half of the episode has nothing whatsoever to do with the
second half. We see the murder victim, whom we will learn later has
created E.L.I., the perfect man of the episode title, a fully-
interactive dating app (short of being a sexbot) that's capable of
breaking up marriages. We learn still later that people left his company
because they think the technology is manipulative and dangerous and
shouldn't be commercially exploited, but maybe the victim likes
exploiting women's emotions through the app.

There is a sinister focus on the victim writing in a notebook.

In the second half of the episode, we learn he's a garden-variety
stalker, although he kept showing up in places the murderer would be.
Was that spying through technology? Never addressed in dialogoue. In any
event, the victim never committed a criminal act nor threatened the
murderer.

Riley and Shaw manage to investigate without any P.C. moments. At one
point, Maura Tierney and Mehcad Brooks go out to interview a suspect, I
swear it's for the humor of emphasizing how absurdly short the actress
is to be playing a cop.

Maroun and Baxter have nearly no lines.

The cops and Price get approached by Benson (Mariska Hargitay) to
SVU-splain the psychobabble of rape victims and their heightened fears
and how this explains away premeditated murder. The murderer (Hey! It's
Emily Meade! Lori from The Deuce!) "just knew" all the stalking and
unwanted attention was going to lead to her getting hurt or killed, even
without a threat, so she planned to murder him, anticipating that he was
following her. Or something.

Benson claimed she took her rape case, but I couldn't spot that episode
listed if it existed. She played different characters on other SVU
episodes.

Her defense attorney is Elizabeth Marvel, a recurring defense attorney
from SVU.

The whole thing is a cheat. Again, the cops never learned any of this.
Furthermore, other than Benson's rants, we get no sense of the
murderer's fears or character nor the victim being threatening, so it's
not possible for the audience to sympathize and see her as a tragic
character. The descriiptions of the stalking sounded menacing.

The trial must have had BTR1701 tearing out his hair. Price made a dozen
objections, and Marvel made one. At no time was the reason for the
objection stated.

In another episode, this would hVe really pissed me off but in this
episode, it's barely noticeable. Brady orders RIley and Shaw to run
forensic evidence through CODIS (Combined DNA Index System) and the
local databaee. Riley objects to "problems" with the local databae, but
we don't learn till much later in the episode what those problems are.

This is actually worth some soul searching ethical discussion, but we
don't get any. The local database includes rape kits, and I'll assume
evidence from crime victims and those incidental to a crime scene who
are neither perpetrators nr victims.

Now, the federal database has loads of biological markers, DNA,
fingerprints, photos. Every enlisted man has had fingerprints taken, and
so has everyone requiring a federal security clearance.

Does the FBI truly keep biological markers of victims out of these
searchable databases?

It's perfectly reasonable to say that someone providing elimination
evidence thought he had an expectation of privacy from having such
evidence be compared to evidence at an unrelated crime scene; same
applies to a crime victim providing evidence.

But what if the police are trying to identify the victim of a crime or
an accident, say somone found unconscious without ID, or dead? Do we
care about the privacy implications that the DNA wasn't collected from a
criminal?

I just wrote more than was said in dialogue that was essentially brushed
off, although Baxter promised to stop using the local database, which is
utterly stupid.
BTR1701
2024-10-14 16:13:40 UTC
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Post by Adam H. Kerman
In the second half of the episode, we learn he's a garden-variety
stalker, although he kept showing up in places the murderer would be.
Was that spying through technology? Never addressed in dialogoue. In any
event, the victim never committed a criminal act nor threatened the
murderer.
Riley and Shaw manage to investigate without any P.C. moments. At one
point, Maura Tierney and Mehcad Brooks go out to interview a suspect, I
swear it's for the humor of emphasizing how absurdly short the actress
is to be playing a cop.
Maroun and Baxter have nearly no lines.
The cops and Price get approached by Benson (Mariska Hargitay) to
SVU-splain the psychobabble of rape victims and their heightened fears
and how this explains away premeditated murder. The murderer (Hey! It's
Emily Meade! Lori from The Deuce!) "just knew" all the stalking and
unwanted attention was going to lead to her getting hurt or killed, even
without a threat, so she planned to murder him, anticipating that he was
following her. Or something.
Yeah, it was pretty incredible that they were seriously arguing that it's okay
to execute someone if they give you the ick.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Benson claimed she took her rape case, but I couldn't spot that episode
listed if it existed. She played different characters on other SVU
episodes.
No, it was an undocumented rape case that never made it to air.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Her defense attorney is Elizabeth Marvel, a recurring defense attorney
from SVU.
Who I must say is looking so gaunt and frail compared to how she looked on
past shows like HOUSE OF CARDS that I wouldn't be surprised if she's fighting
some serious health problems.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The trial must have had BTR1701 tearing out his hair. Price made a dozen
objections, and Marvel made one. At no time was the reason for the
objection stated.
And many of them didn't receive any rulings from the judge. Another of those
TV tropes where the lawyer asks a no-no question, the other side objects, then
the lawyer says "Withdrawn" and they move on. Nope, nope, nope. All objections
must be ruled on by the judge so that they're preserved in the record for
appeal.

And I guess it's pointless to yet again note how absurd it is for the
witnesses in the trial to all be sitting in the gallery watching each other
testify. In fact, right before the defendant testified, Benson told her that
if she was too nervous to look at the jury, to just look at her. And I was
like, she can't look at you, because your a witness and you're not allowed to
be in the room! But of course she was.

<face palm>
Post by Adam H. Kerman
In another episode, this would hVe really pissed me off but in this
episode, it's barely noticeable. Brady orders Riley and Shaw to run
forensic evidence through CODIS (Combined DNA Index System) and the
local database. Riley objects to "problems" with the local database, but
we don't learn till much later in the episode what those problems are.
This is actually worth some soul searching ethical discussion, but we
don't get any. The local database includes rape kits, and I'll assume
evidence from crime victims and those incidental to a crime scene who
are neither perpetrators nor victims
SVU has done whole episodes about this. Apparently Dick Wolf really has a
hard-on for this issue.
Adam H. Kerman
2024-10-14 17:43:51 UTC
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Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
In the second half of the episode, we learn he's a garden-variety
stalker, although he kept showing up in places the murderer would be.
Was that spying through technology? Never addressed in dialogoue. In any
event, the victim never committed a criminal act nor threatened the
murderer.
Riley and Shaw manage to investigate without any P.C. moments. At one
point, Maura Tierney and Mehcad Brooks go out to interview a suspect, I
swear it's for the humor of emphasizing how absurdly short the actress
is to be playing a cop.
Maroun and Baxter have nearly no lines.
The cops and Price get approached by Benson (Mariska Hargitay) to
SVU-splain the psychobabble of rape victims and their heightened fears
and how this explains away premeditated murder. The murderer (Hey! It's
Emily Meade! Lori from The Deuce!) "just knew" all the stalking and
unwanted attention was going to lead to her getting hurt or killed, even
without a threat, so she planned to murder him, anticipating that he was
following her. Or something.
Yeah, it was pretty incredible that they were seriously arguing that
it's okay to execute someone if they give you the ick.
He must have been stalking her electronically, given how often she was
encountering him. If theyd gotten into that aspect of the case, there's
a possibility that she'd have been able to assert self defense.
Otherwise the stalking was entirely magical.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Benson claimed she took her rape case, but I couldn't spot that episode
listed if it existed. She played different characters on other SVU
episodes.
No, it was an undocumented rape case that never made it to air.
Did that make any sense to you? I can understand that someone early on
failed to properly document and investigate her complaint but once
Benson got involved, how the hell did the complaint remain undocumented
and uninvestigated?
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Her defense attorney is Elizabeth Marvel, a recurring defense attorney
from SVU.
Who I must say is looking so gaunt and frail compared to how she looked on
past shows like HOUSE OF CARDS that I wouldn't be surprised if she's fighting
some serious health problems.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The trial must have had BTR1701 tearing out his hair. Price made a dozen
objections, and Marvel made one. At no time was the reason for the
objection stated.
And many of them didn't receive any rulings from the judge. Another
of those TV tropes where the lawyer asks a no-no question, the other
side objects, then the lawyer says "Withdrawn" and they move on. Nope,
nope, nope. All objections must be ruled on by the judge so that they're
preserved in the record for appeal.
And I guess it's pointless to yet again note how absurd it is for the
witnesses in the trial to all be sitting in the gallery watching each
other testify. In fact, right before the defendant testified, Benson
told her that if she was too nervous to look at the jury, to just look
at her. And I was like, she can't look at you, because your a witness
and you're not allowed to be in the room! But of course she was.
<face palm>
I know. After three decades on air, it's amazing what they get wrong.

Here's something I don't know: Is a witness allowed to sit in the
courtroom after completing testimony or must he leave?
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
In another episode, this would hVe really pissed me off but in this
episode, it's barely noticeable. Brady orders Riley and Shaw to run
forensic evidence through CODIS (Combined DNA Index System) and the
local database. Riley objects to "problems" with the local database, but
we don't learn till much later in the episode what those problems are.
This is actually worth some soul searching ethical discussion, but we
don't get any. The local database includes rape kits, and I'll assume
evidence from crime victims and those incidental to a crime scene who
are neither perpetrators nor victims
SVU has done whole episodes about this. Apparently Dick Wolf really has a
hard-on for this issue.
Ah. It's worth discussing.

Where do you come down on the expectation of privacy of the individual
providing biological evidence, either as the complaining witness or just
incidentaly at a scene before the crime occurred?

I've thought about this myself. Would I cooperate in providing
fingerprints to eliminate me as a suspect, knowing damn well that
they'll live forever in some police database?
BTR1701
2024-10-14 23:55:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
In the second half of the episode, we learn he's a garden-variety
stalker, although he kept showing up in places the murderer would be.
Was that spying through technology? Never addressed in dialogoue. In any
event, the victim never committed a criminal act nor threatened the
murderer.
Riley and Shaw manage to investigate without any P.C. moments. At one
point, Maura Tierney and Mehcad Brooks go out to interview a suspect, I
swear it's for the humor of emphasizing how absurdly short the actress
is to be playing a cop.
Maroun and Baxter have nearly no lines.
The cops and Price get approached by Benson (Mariska Hargitay) to
SVU-splain the psychobabble of rape victims and their heightened fears
and how this explains away premeditated murder. The murderer (Hey! It's
Emily Meade! Lori from The Deuce!) "just knew" all the stalking and
unwanted attention was going to lead to her getting hurt or killed, even
without a threat, so she planned to murder him, anticipating that he was
following her. Or something.
Yeah, it was pretty incredible that they were seriously arguing that
it's okay to execute someone if they give you the ick.
He must have been stalking her electronically, given how often she was
encountering him. If theyd gotten into that aspect of the case, there's
a possibility that she'd have been able to assert self defense.
Otherwise the stalking was entirely magical.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Benson claimed she took her rape case, but I couldn't spot that episode
listed if it existed. She played different characters on other SVU
episodes.
No, it was an undocumented rape case that never made it to air.
Did that make any sense to you? I can understand that someone early on
failed to properly document and investigate her complaint but once
Benson got involved, how the hell did the complaint remain undocumented
and uninvestigated?
I didn't mean undocumented within the show's story. I mean undocumented as in
"not the subject of a SUV episode".
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Her defense attorney is Elizabeth Marvel, a recurring defense attorney
from SVU.
Who I must say is looking so gaunt and frail compared to how she looked on
past shows like HOUSE OF CARDS that I wouldn't be surprised if she's fighting
some serious health problems.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The trial must have had BTR1701 tearing out his hair. Price made a dozen
objections, and Marvel made one. At no time was the reason for the
objection stated.
And many of them didn't receive any rulings from the judge. Another
of those TV tropes where the lawyer asks a no-no question, the other
side objects, then the lawyer says "Withdrawn" and they move on. Nope,
nope, nope. All objections must be ruled on by the judge so that they're
preserved in the record for appeal.
And I guess it's pointless to yet again note how absurd it is for the
witnesses in the trial to all be sitting in the gallery watching each
other testify. In fact, right before the defendant testified, Benson
told her that if she was too nervous to look at the jury, to just look
at her. And I was like, she can't look at you, because your a witness
and you're not allowed to be in the room! But of course she was.
<face palm>
I know. After three decades on air, it's amazing what they get wrong.
Here's something I don't know: Is a witness allowed to sit in the
courtroom after completing testimony or must he leave?
Usually attorneys will dismiss a witness subject to recall, so as long as
there's a possibility they may be recalled to the stand, they have to remain
outside the courtroom.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
In another episode, this would hVe really pissed me off but in this
episode, it's barely noticeable. Brady orders Riley and Shaw to run
forensic evidence through CODIS (Combined DNA Index System) and the
local database. Riley objects to "problems" with the local database, but
we don't learn till much later in the episode what those problems are.
This is actually worth some soul searching ethical discussion, but we
don't get any. The local database includes rape kits, and I'll assume
evidence from crime victims and those incidental to a crime scene who
are neither perpetrators nor victims
SVU has done whole episodes about this. Apparently Dick Wolf really has a
hard-on for this issue.
Ah. It's worth discussing.
Where do you come down on the expectation of privacy of the individual
providing biological evidence, either as the complaining witness or just
incidentally at a scene before the crime occurred?
I can see the need to retain the info for future comparisons but I don't
understand why victim/witness biometrics can't just be stored in a separate
database that is specifically off-limits for criminal investigations.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I've thought about this myself. Would I cooperate in providing
fingerprints to eliminate me as a suspect, knowing damn well that
they'll live forever in some police database?
anim8rfsk
2024-10-14 18:37:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
In the second half of the episode, we learn he's a garden-variety
stalker, although he kept showing up in places the murderer would be.
Was that spying through technology? Never addressed in dialogoue. In any
event, the victim never committed a criminal act nor threatened the
murderer.
Riley and Shaw manage to investigate without any P.C. moments. At one
point, Maura Tierney and Mehcad Brooks go out to interview a suspect, I
swear it's for the humor of emphasizing how absurdly short the actress
is to be playing a cop.
Maroun and Baxter have nearly no lines.
The cops and Price get approached by Benson (Mariska Hargitay) to
SVU-splain the psychobabble of rape victims and their heightened fears
and how this explains away premeditated murder. The murderer (Hey! It's
Emily Meade! Lori from The Deuce!) "just knew" all the stalking and
unwanted attention was going to lead to her getting hurt or killed, even
without a threat, so she planned to murder him, anticipating that he was
following her. Or something.
Yeah, it was pretty incredible that they were seriously arguing that it's okay
to execute someone if they give you the ick.
Not to mention that if a woman is treated badly by the system, she gets
carte blanche to murder anyone she wants, even if they’re completely
unrelated to her previous case.
--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.
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