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If you're going to San Francisco ...
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t***@gmail.com
2019-10-09 00:26:08 UTC
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California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its customers throughout its service area.

Of the Bay Area’s nine counties, all but San Francisco will be affected by the mass outage intended to stop PG&E power lines from starting wildfires when fast, dry winds blow in after several months without sustained rainfall. Across the state, thirty-four counties will be affected.

Even customers far from the dangerous weather could lose power if PG&E turns off a line serving them that passes through a place that will experience the severe conditions. And some could be affected long after the winds die down because the company will have to inspect all of the power lines it turns off, and that can’t happen until the winds die down.


PG&E to cut power to 800,000 customers across California early Wednesday morning
Michael Cabanatuan and J.D. Morris Oct. 8, 2019
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/PG-E-power-shut-off-257-000-Bay-Area-residents-14500945.php
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/10/08/power-outage-quarter-million-bay-area-residents-pge-red-flag-winds/

















------------

Be sure to take some batteries


Pete
2019-10-09 01:55:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)

-- Pete --
Rhino
2019-10-09 02:48:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
-- Pete --
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
--
Rhino
t***@gmail.com
2019-10-09 02:56:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
PG&E Plans To File For Bankruptcy Over Possible Liability In California Wildfires
January 14, 2019
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685131312/pg-e-plans-to-file-for-bankruptcy-over-possible-liability-in-california-wildfire


The state's fire agency, Cal Fire, determined in June that PG&E equipment had sparked 17 wildfires across Northern California in 2017.






-------------

Cutting power may not stop fires, but will probably curtail lawsuits ... until somebody on life support dies because the electricity was cut.
Jim G.
2019-10-09 02:58:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
-- Pete --
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
Artificial power is extremely flammable.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"I'm really glad we're at this place in our relationship where we can
dig up graves together without having to talk." -- Major Lillywhite, iZOMBIE
anim8rfsk
2019-10-09 03:14:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
-- Pete --
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.

Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Pete
2019-10-09 03:24:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
-- Pete --
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Exactly. All das spitzensparken...
Post by anim8rfsk
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
Or even thought of the possibility when they were building it!

-- Pete --
BTR1701
2019-10-09 03:31:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Jim G.
2019-10-09 03:57:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"I'm really glad we're at this place in our relationship where we can
dig up graves together without having to talk." -- Major Lillywhite, iZOMBIE
shawn
2019-10-09 04:39:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:57:08 -0500, "Jim G."
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
BTR1701
2019-10-09 05:43:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:57:08 -0500, "Jim G."
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
shawn
2019-10-09 07:05:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:57:08 -0500, "Jim G."
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
But that cost doesn't come out of the electric companies pockets
normally. Since they did get dinged hard for the last big fire they
are taking the only preventative step they can now by shutting off the
power.

To build an underground power system for those high voltage lines it
would take a LOT of money and time. I'm not sure it could be done
safely given the damage some of those earthquakes do with the earth
shifting. Unless the public complains loudly enough and agrees to fund
the building of an underground power system (assuming it's doable in
that area) I don't see it happening. Till then I expect there will be
even more power outages and brownouts as they attempt to prevent
future fires.
Rhino
2019-10-09 16:59:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:57:08 -0500, "Jim G."
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
But that cost doesn't come out of the electric companies pockets
normally. Since they did get dinged hard for the last big fire they
are taking the only preventative step they can now by shutting off the
power.
To build an underground power system for those high voltage lines it
would take a LOT of money and time. I'm not sure it could be done
safely given the damage some of those earthquakes do with the earth
shifting. Unless the public complains loudly enough and agrees to fund
the building of an underground power system (assuming it's doable in
that area) I don't see it happening. Till then I expect there will be
even more power outages and brownouts as they attempt to prevent
future fires.
Doesn't Elon Musk's Hyperloop technology give them way cheaper ways to
dig underground? I know he was trying to build tunnels for subways and
subterranean trains but if his approach will work for a tunnel, it ought
to work for a much smaller power line....
--
Rhino
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 17:20:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Doesn't Elon Musk's Hyperloop technology give them way cheaper ways to
dig underground? I know he was trying to build tunnels for subways and
subterranean trains but if his approach will work for a tunnel, it ought
to work for a much smaller power line....
Imbibe enough alchohol and it's possible to believe Musk's phony claims.
Rhino
2019-10-09 17:50:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Rhino
Doesn't Elon Musk's Hyperloop technology give them way cheaper ways to
dig underground? I know he was trying to build tunnels for subways and
subterranean trains but if his approach will work for a tunnel, it ought
to work for a much smaller power line....
Imbibe enough alchohol and it's possible to believe Musk's phony claims.
I don't drink :-)
--
Rhino
The Horny Goat
2019-10-11 16:44:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:50:56 -0400, Rhino
Post by Rhino
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by Rhino
Doesn't Elon Musk's Hyperloop technology give them way cheaper ways to
dig underground? I know he was trying to build tunnels for subways and
subterranean trains but if his approach will work for a tunnel, it ought
to work for a much smaller power line....
Imbibe enough alchohol and it's possible to believe Musk's phony claims.
I don't drink :-)
I think the point was that Musk's claims might drive you to drink...
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 17:18:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit

It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.

You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.

There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.

Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.

Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.

Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
Rhino
2019-10-09 17:50:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.
Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.
Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
I wonder if there isn't another cheaper way to proceed than moving
everything underground.

Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.

As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.

Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
--
Rhino
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 17:53:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.
Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.
Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
I wonder if there isn't another cheaper way to proceed than moving
everything underground.
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
That's very interesting.
Post by Rhino
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-09 19:47:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting
the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.
Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.
Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
I wonder if there isn't another cheaper way to proceed than moving
everything underground.
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
suzeeq
2019-10-09 19:49:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-09 20:59:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
Ah. Thanks!
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Rhino
2019-10-11 01:52:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
I owe you some ice cream :-)
--
Rhino
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 02:03:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
I owe you some ice cream :-)
She likes Eskimo pie.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Rhino
2019-10-11 03:36:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
I owe you some ice cream :-)
She likes Eskimo pie.
Good to know.... ;-)
--
Rhino
suzeeq
2019-10-11 02:20:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
I owe you some ice cream :-)
Soup, send soup. It's chilly here, about 10-15 degrees F below what's
usual for this time of year.
Rhino
2019-10-11 03:37:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
I owe you some ice cream :-)
Soup, send soup. It's chilly here, about 10-15 degrees F below what's
usual for this time of year.
You're in eastern Washington state, right? What temperatures are you
getting there this week?

It's actually milder and dryer than usual for here right now. Maybe
we've got your extra degrees....
--
Rhino
suzeeq
2019-10-11 05:17:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
I owe you some ice cream :-)
Soup, send soup. It's chilly here, about 10-15 degrees F below what's
usual for this time of year.
You're in eastern Washington state, right? What temperatures are you
getting there this week?
A few miles over the border in N Idaho. We're having mid40s with nights
about 20 - average for late November. Usually we're around 60 with lows
above freezing. It's going to warm up next week into the mid 50s.
Post by Rhino
It's actually milder and dryer than usual for here right now. Maybe
we've got your extra degrees....
Probably. Our airmass is coming in from the arctic north.
Rhino
2019-10-11 13:35:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by Rhino
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
Owned by the hydro electric company. It's Canadian shorthand for
transmission tower.
I owe you some ice cream :-)
Soup, send soup. It's chilly here, about 10-15 degrees F below what's
usual for this time of year.
You're in eastern Washington state, right? What temperatures are you
getting there this week?
A few miles over the border in N Idaho. We're having mid40s with nights
about 20 - average for late November. Usually we're around 60 with lows
above freezing. It's going to warm up next week into the mid 50s.
Post by Rhino
It's actually milder and dryer than usual for here right now. Maybe
we've got your extra degrees....
Probably. Our airmass is coming in from the arctic north.
Condolences! Here's hoping things return to normal - or better - soon!
--
Rhino
Rhino
2019-10-11 01:51:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.
Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.
Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
I wonder if there isn't another cheaper way to proceed than moving
everything underground.
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
I'm not sure what you call them in your neck of the woods. Let's see if
I can find a picture for you....

http://www.hydroquebec.com/learning/transport/types-pylones.html

What do you call those?
--
Rhino
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 02:02:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:57:08 -0500, "Jim
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Tue, 08 Oct 2019 19:48:32 -0700
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet
to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and
Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting
the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of
endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.
Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.
Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
I wonder if there isn't another cheaper way to proceed than moving
everything underground.
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
I'm not sure what you call them in your neck of the woods. Let's see if
I can find a picture for you....
http://www.hydroquebec.com/learning/transport/types-pylones.html
What do you call those?
Power tower, high tension, high voltage. It's the 'hydro' that threw me.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Rhino
2019-10-11 03:44:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 22:57:08 -0500, "Jim
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Tue, 08 Oct 2019 19:48:32 -0700
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and
Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.
Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.
Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
I wonder if there isn't another cheaper way to proceed than moving
everything underground.
Much of Quebec and parts of Ontario were hit by a major ice storm about
20 years back and that caused a large number of hydro towers to fall
over. The weight of the ice on the wires was so severe that many towers
toppled, taking out many, many customers, in some cases for up to a
month. I gather it was rather like one of those domino chains.
As a result of that storm, Quebec Hydro replaced every 10th tower with
extra heavy duty towers that would be able to stay standing even if a
similar storm (or perhaps even worse ones) was to take place. That would
limit the consequences of any such storm substantially.
Maybe PG&E could do something like that.
What's a 'hydro tower'?
I'm not sure what you call them in your neck of the woods. Let's see if
I can find a picture for you....
http://www.hydroquebec.com/learning/transport/types-pylones.html
What do you call those?
Power tower, high tension, high voltage. It's the 'hydro' that threw me.
We use "hydro" as a short form of hydro-electric. At least in Ontario
and Quebec; they may use different terms in other provinces for all I know.

There ARE some terms that only get used regionally that another part of
the country may not now. For instance, one of my friends who lives in BC
and has always lived there used the term "skookum" once and I had no
idea what it meant. Apparently, it's a BC (or West Coast?) term that
means "solid" or "well-built" as in a skookum cottage.
--
Rhino
shawn
2019-10-09 19:10:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 17:18:53 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by t***@gmail.com
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
I think it's also rather difficult (i.e. Costly in terms of $$ and
time) in the areas under discussion as we are talking about canyons
and not suburban areas.
Not as costly as half the state burning down, which we can clearly see
is the result of *not* burying them.
Bullshit
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Stop all the cost shifting. It makes the problems go away.
Maybe buried utilities are the answer in some cases. The disadvantage,
that you won't acknowledge, is if there is a problem that hasn't
complete cut off power, it won't be noticed until there are bad
consequences. At least with above-ground utilities, if something looks
ugly, it can be called in and put on the inspection list.
Wildfires aren't sparked by well-maintained above ground utilities.
Given the area I'm not 100% convinced but it's certainly the case that
if PG&E had done proper maintenance in clearing the brush from beneath
the transmission lines it would have helped and probably would have
prevented some of the fires. I guess the terrain is so rough they
didn't want to put in the effort to keep the ground clear.
shawn
2019-10-09 19:47:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 21:05:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Short of assessing the fines on the shareholders, PG&E seems to be
immune from operating like a continuing entity with a future.
BTR1701
2019-10-09 21:18:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-09 21:28:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
Wow
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 22:06:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
Is this because of REAL ID compliance deadlines or just general
incompetence?

I have no intent of replacing my driver's license before I have to renew
it. I'm supposed to replace it for REAL ID compliance, but Vehicle
Services has made that a completely miserable process and I'll put off
the pain for another two years. It's worse than applying for an original
driver's license. I have to bring in the birth certificate and Social
Security Card again. But I have to use two documents to prove residency;
being registered to vote is insufficient. That's outrageous. The fact
that I have an existing driver's license doesn't prove anything.
shawn
2019-10-09 23:09:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 22:06:39 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
Is this because of REAL ID compliance deadlines or just general
incompetence?
I have no intent of replacing my driver's license before I have to renew
it. I'm supposed to replace it for REAL ID compliance, but Vehicle
Services has made that a completely miserable process and I'll put off
the pain for another two years. It's worse than applying for an original
driver's license. I have to bring in the birth certificate and Social
Security Card again. But I have to use two documents to prove residency;
being registered to vote is insufficient. That's outrageous. The fact
that I have an existing driver's license doesn't prove anything.
The documentation requirements on REAL ID are a bit strange. I lost my
Social Security card long ago and never got it replaced because they
wanted various forms of ID. So I ended up using the Social Security
form the agency sends out every few years that shows how much you
would get if you retire at certain ages. (Which you would think would
be enough to get the SS agency to send me a replacement since they
keep sending me the forms with all the relevant information on it.)

As I recall the DMV person spent more time making sure my eyes were
wide open for the photo than she did looking at the various documents.
I could easily have faked them and no one would be the wiser so I'm
not sure how RealID is any better than what we had before.
BTR1701
2019-10-10 00:27:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
Is this because of REAL ID compliance deadlines or just general
incompetence?
Both. They had more than a decade to prepare for RealID, but that didn't
bother doing anything about it until less than a year before the deadline.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
I have no intent of replacing my driver's license before I have to renew
it. I'm supposed to replace it for REAL ID compliance, but Vehicle
Services has made that a completely miserable process and I'll put off
the pain for another two years. It's worse than applying for an original
driver's license. I have to bring in the birth certificate and Social
Security Card again. But I have to use two documents to prove residency;
being registered to vote is insufficient. That's outrageous. The fact
that I have an existing driver's license doesn't prove anything.
I'm not going near the DMV either. I can currently fly with my federal
credentials just fine. And when I retire, I can use my passport. No need to
get a new DL.
moviePig
2019-10-09 22:10:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
Shirley that's only for drivers' road tests...
--
- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 22:19:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by moviePig
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Wed, 9 Oct 2019 17:18:53 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
Shirley that's only for drivers' road tests...
Good one, moviePig. He lives in the state of California, so let's assume
he knows what he's speaking of in a way that doesn't require
reinterpretation by you.
BTR1701
2019-10-10 00:27:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by moviePig
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
Shirley that's only for drivers' road tests...
Nope.
BTR1701
2019-10-10 07:22:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by moviePig
Post by BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state,
Governor Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it
illegal to sell a DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that
they've let things get so bad at the DMVs that there's actually now
a black market for appointment times.
Shirley that's only for drivers' road tests...
https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/10/09/california-dmv-appointment-sale-
law/
At least one company, YoGov, started offering a service to help people get an
appointment. Customers pay $25 and, as the website claims, employees at Yogov
are "constantly hitting refresh on DMV's website to look for dropped
appointments in order to get the customer an earlier appointment."
And why should that be illegal? If the government creates an idiotic
website which forces *you* to guess which times are available by
scrolling through and choosing each time slot one at a time until you
find a free one**, why should it be a crime to pay someone to do that
for you?

**Instead of the much more logical design where the site presents you
with all of the available times and dates and lets you select one that
works best for you.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-10 12:57:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by moviePig
Post by BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state,
Governor Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it
illegal to sell a DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that
they've let things get so bad at the DMVs that there's actually now
a black market for appointment times.
Shirley that's only for drivers' road tests...
https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/10/09/california-dmv-appointment-sale-
law/
At least one company, YoGov, started offering a service to help people get an
appointment. Customers pay $25 and, as the website claims, employees at Yogov
are "constantly hitting refresh on DMV's website to look for dropped
appointments in order to get the customer an earlier appointment."
And why should that be illegal? If the government creates an idiotic
website which forces *you* to guess which times are available by
scrolling through and choosing each time slot one at a time until you
find a free one**, why should it be a crime to pay someone to do that
for you?
**Instead of the much more logical design where the site presents you
with all of the available times and dates and lets you select one that
works best for you.
It's just like ticket scalping! Soon you'll be buying DMV appointments from
Ticketmaster!
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
shawn
2019-10-09 23:03:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
How did it get that bad? Here in the Atlanta region most people will
do their renewal by mail. It's only the initial license and
replacements that require people to hit the DMV. At least until they
hit a certain age (can't remember exactly but it's at least in the
60s/70s). So the lines tend to be short.

Oh, then there's also the changeover from a regular license to
RealID. That does require a trip to the DMV which is why I had to go
when I got my license renewed. Still it only took me about an hour
from the time I got to the DMV till when I left. Since that's a one
time requirement I won't need to visit the DMV for a driver's license
for some time.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-09 23:08:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
Post by BTR1701
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
How did it get that bad? Here in the Atlanta region most people will
do their renewal by mail. It's only the initial license and
replacements that require people to hit the DMV. At least until they
hit a certain age (can't remember exactly but it's at least in the
60s/70s). So the lines tend to be short.
Oh, then there's also the changeover from a regular license to
RealID. That does require a trip to the DMV which is why I had to go
when I got my license renewed. Still it only took me about an hour
from the time I got to the DMV till when I left. Since that's a one
time requirement I won't need to visit the DMV for a driver's license
for some time.
We have to go in for the initial license. We have to go in after a certain
age. We have to go in for any renewal, or anything else that requires a new
photo. And the many satellite offices can't do that.
We have to go in for RealID. We have to go in if we have tickets.

I have no idea what we could do by mail. Maybe a change of address?
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Ed Stasiak
2019-10-10 11:09:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
I don’t even… I thought for sure you were bullshitting but it’s true, California
is truly a madhouse.

Loading Image...
anim8rfsk
2019-10-10 13:19:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ed Stasiak
Post by Adam H. Kerman
BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state, Governor
Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it illegal to sell a
DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that they've let things get so
bad at the DMVs that there's actually now a black market for appointment
times.
I don’t even… I thought for sure you were bullshitting but it’s true, California
is truly a madhouse.
https://i.postimg.cc/W16STbTz/what-the-fuck-am-i-reading.jpg
Loading Image...
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
BTR1701
2019-10-10 14:42:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state,
Governor Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it
illegal to sell a DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that
they've let things get so bad at the DMVs that there's actually now
a black market for appointment times.
I don't even... I thought for sure you were bullshitting but it's true,
California is truly a madhouse.
https://i.postimg.cc/W16STbTz/what-the-fuck-am-i-reading.jpg
https://media.giphy.com/media/YrrXqnOQVBjIA/giphy.gif
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror.

Imagine paying the highest taxes in the nation, constantly hearing your
state and local officials brag about California being the "5th largest
economy in the world" and then being told "Sorry guys, we gotta live
like it's 1850 without power for a week or so every time the wind blows
because we suck at infrastructure and management. Whoops!"

And they also want to limit us all to electric cars by 2030. I guess
when it's windy we won't be able to drive anymore, either. And all we'll
get is the same collective shrug from the dipshits in charge that we're
getting now and the morons who vote here will keep reelecting them
because they're 'woke' or some such idiocy.

But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.

Progressivism!
moviePig
2019-10-10 16:22:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state,
Governor Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it
illegal to sell a DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that
they've let things get so bad at the DMVs that there's actually now
a black market for appointment times.
I don't even... I thought for sure you were bullshitting but it's true,
California is truly a madhouse.
https://i.postimg.cc/W16STbTz/what-the-fuck-am-i-reading.jpg
https://media.giphy.com/media/YrrXqnOQVBjIA/giphy.gif
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror.
Imagine paying the highest taxes in the nation, constantly hearing your
state and local officials brag about California being the "5th largest
economy in the world" and then being told "Sorry guys, we gotta live
like it's 1850 without power for a week or so every time the wind blows
because we suck at infrastructure and management. Whoops!"
And they also want to limit us all to electric cars by 2030. I guess
when it's windy we won't be able to drive anymore, either. And all we'll
get is the same collective shrug from the dipshits in charge that we're
getting now and the morons who vote here will keep reelecting them
because they're 'woke' or some such idiocy.
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
Your electric cars will have wind turbines. And sails.
--
- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-10 22:08:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable

I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.

The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.

What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.

All restaurants and grocery stores will now discard all their food from
lack of refridgeration?

What if your feeder lines were actually replaced within recent decades?
Did they get shut off too? Not everything is prehistoric utility
infrastructure.
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles. What, if I take shampoo from
less than a Sam's Club or Costco-sized refill, I'm committing a felony?
anim8rfsk
2019-10-10 22:27:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.
All restaurants and grocery stores will now discard all their food from
lack of refridgeration?
What if your feeder lines were actually replaced within recent decades?
Did they get shut off too? Not everything is prehistoric utility
infrastructure.
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles. What, if I take shampoo from
less than a Sam's Club or Costco-sized refill, I'm committing a felony?
California governor signs law banning hotels from providing tiny, plastic
shampoo bottles to guests
OCT. 9, 2019
8:11 PM
SACRAMENTO, Calif.—
California governor signs law banning hotels from providing tiny, plastic
shampoo bottles to guests.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/california/story/2019-10-
09/california-governor-signs-law-banning-hotels-from-providing-tiny-plastic-
shampoo-bottles-to-guests

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/california-bans-hotels-from-using-
tiny-plastic-bottles-filled-with-shampoo-soap/ar-AAIAit6

Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Wednesday he had signed a law banninghotelsfrom
giving guests plastic bottles filled withshampoo, conditioner or soap. It
takes effect in 2023 forhotelswith more than 50 rooms and in 2024
forhotelswith less than 50 rooms.

Violators could be fined $500 for a first offense and $2,000 for subsequent
violations.

The law follows similar actions by some of the world's largesthotelchains.
Marriott International has said it plans to stop using small plastic bottles
in itshotelrooms by December 2020. IHG, which ownsHoliday Inn, Kimpton and
other brands, said it will eliminate about 200 million small bottles by 2021.

Last year, Walt Disney Co. said it would get rid of small
plasticshampoobottles at itsresortsandcruiseships.

The law comes as California officials are trying to reduce the amount of
plastic waste. The state already bans grocery stores from giving customers
single-use plastic bags without charging a fee. Last year, former Gov. Jerry
Brown passed a law allowing restaurants to hand out plastic straws only upon
request.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-10 22:35:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?

Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd

Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 01:33:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-11 02:15:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
That's some story. I've still never heard of a a meter being yanked just
because the ratepayer vacates. Around here, if they thought it wouldn't
be too much time between tenants, under a month, thehy'd leave the power
on.
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
Or they'll refill. How could that be unclear or anything?
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 02:35:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
That's some story. I've still never heard of a a meter being yanked just
because the ratepayer vacates. Around here, if they thought it wouldn't
be too much time between tenants, under a month, thehy'd leave the power
on.
Oh, they always used to pull the meters. I guess so nobody can flip 'em on
again.

I'm not sure if they do still now that we have wifi meters.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
Or they'll refill. How could that be unclear or anything?
I don't see any way to comply that's not worse all the way around.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-10-11 03:48:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
That's some story. I've still never heard of a a meter being yanked just
because the ratepayer vacates. Around here, if they thought it wouldn't
be too much time between tenants, under a month, thehy'd leave the power
on.
Oh, they always used to pull the meters. I guess so nobody can flip 'em on
again.
I'm not sure if they do still now that we have wifi meters.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
Or they'll refill. How could that be unclear or anything?
I don't see any way to comply that's not worse all the way around.
Glass bottles. Wall mounted shampoo dispensers (like liquid soap
dispensers). If you're part of the 1% you get a personal servant who
applies the shampoo carried by hand from a central reserve.
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-11 02:39:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment
of a state
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back
on, even if
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
That's some story. I've still never heard of a a meter being yanked just
because the ratepayer vacates. Around here, if they thought it wouldn't
be too much time between tenants, under a month, thehy'd leave the power
on.
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
Or they'll refill. How could that be unclear or anything?
I meant "unclean", not "unclear".
Ed Stasiak
2019-10-11 12:11:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
Adam H. Kerman
anim8rfsk
Took like a week for them to get the power back on, even though
I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling the
wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
That's some story. I've still never heard of a a meter being yanked just
because the ratepayer vacates. Around here, if they thought it wouldn't
be too much time between tenants, under a month, they’d leave the
power on.
Hereabouts, DTE (the electric company) have installed “smart meters”,
which consists of a green plastic box wired into the meter that allows
the company to shut off the power instantly and remotely (presumably
via some kinda cellphone tech) if a customer welches on the bill or
moves out.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 15:52:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ed Stasiak
Post by shawn
Adam H. Kerman
anim8rfsk
Took like a week for them to get the power back on, even though
I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling the
wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
That's some story. I've still never heard of a a meter being yanked just
because the ratepayer vacates. Around here, if they thought it wouldn't
be too much time between tenants, under a month, they’d leave the
power on.
Hereabouts, DTE (the electric company) have installed “smart meters”,
which consists of a green plastic box wired into the meter that allows
the company to shut off the power instantly and remotely (presumably
via some kinda cellphone tech) if a customer welches on the bill or
moves out.
They also allow them to take the meter readings remotely.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
suzeeq
2019-10-11 02:19:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
You can get shampoos in little pouches. It would be a way around the law.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 02:36:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
You can get shampoos in little pouches. It would be a way around the law.
Yes, our supermarkets have bins of them. I've grabbed handfuls for traveling
and such.
I assume the next step will be to outlaw those as well.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-10-11 03:49:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by suzeeq
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Well, some nitwit from APS came out and pulled the wrong plug once and turned
off one of my two suites instead of pulling the meter on the guy who was
actually moving out.
And, no, they would NOT turn it back on.
I had to talk to the home office, and they made me PAY A FUCKING SECURITY
DEPOSIT AGAIN as if I was a new customer, even though half my office was
still running and obviously my account was still active.
I had to go buy a bunch of extension cords and run them from one side of the
double suite to the other. Took like a week for them to get the power back
on, even though I was out at the breakers within a minute of the guy pulling
the wrong meter, and he was still standing there with it in his hand.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo bottles,
using more plastic.
You can get shampoos in little pouches. It would be a way around the law.
Yes, our supermarkets have bins of them. I've grabbed handfuls for traveling
and such.
I assume the next step will be to outlaw those as well.
The TSA already searches your luggage. :D
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Ed Stasiak
2019-10-11 12:06:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
anim8rfsk
Post by shawn
Adam H. Kerman
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels
have maids, trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not
the type of thing that gets flung out an automobile window.
My assumption is that the hotels will just hand out larger shampoo
bottles, using more plastic.
The hotels are using the environmental issues as a cost cutting and
marketing tool, claiming that they’re not giving out shampoo and such
because they want to be “green” companies who care about the
environment.

I’ve read that hotels are now putting up notices in rooms stating that
if you hang up your bath towel after taking a shower, they’ll leave it
there to save on laundry as again, they’re a “green” corporation but
in reality, they’re just pocketing the savings from laundry costs.
BTR1701
2019-10-11 17:40:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
Hotels actually like this shit. They're using 'climate change' as an
excuse to cut amenities while still charging the same rate and you can't
complain because it's 'for the planet'.

Every hotel I stay in now always has a card on the pillow telling me how
I'm a cold, heartless asshole who doesn't care about the planet,
unicorns, and tiny, tiny babies if I ask for maid service.
suzeeq
2019-10-11 17:47:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
Hotels actually like this shit. They're using 'climate change' as an
excuse to cut amenities while still charging the same rate and you can't
complain because it's 'for the planet'.
Every hotel I stay in now always has a card on the pillow telling me how
I'm a cold, heartless asshole who doesn't care about the planet,
unicorns, and tiny, tiny babies if I ask for maid service.
How about keeping the maids employed?
BTR1701
2019-10-11 18:08:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by suzeeq
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a
state I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror...
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even
if they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
Hotels actually like this shit. They're using 'climate change' as an
excuse to cut amenities while still charging the same rate and you can't
complain because it's 'for the planet'.
Every hotel I stay in now always has a card on the pillow telling me how
I'm a cold, heartless asshole who doesn't care about the planet,
unicorns, and tiny, tiny babies if I ask for maid service.
How about keeping the maids employed?
Well, if the hotel can reduce the housekeeping staff because the
customers are being shamed into forgoing maid service, then that's even
more money the hotel can save.
trotsky
2019-10-12 08:44:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by suzeeq
Post by BTR1701
Every hotel I stay in now always has a card on the pillow telling me how
I'm a cold, heartless asshole who doesn't care about the planet,
unicorns, and tiny, tiny babies if I ask for maid service.
How about keeping the maids employed?
Well, if the hotel can reduce the housekeeping staff because the
customers are being shamed into forgoing maid service, then that's even
more money the hotel can save.
Why the fuck is it Libertarians are so good at being shamed?
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 19:25:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
Hotels actually like this shit. They're using 'climate change' as an
excuse to cut amenities while still charging the same rate and you can't
complain because it's 'for the planet'.
Every hotel I stay in now always has a card on the pillow telling me how
I'm a cold, heartless asshole who doesn't care about the planet,
unicorns, and tiny, tiny babies if I ask for maid service.
Heh, yeah. Last hotel I was in had a doorknob card that you put out if you
wanted maid service. The default was none.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Jim G.
2019-10-12 21:12:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
Hotels actually like this shit. They're using 'climate change' as an
excuse to cut amenities while still charging the same rate and you can't
complain because it's 'for the planet'.
Every hotel I stay in now always has a card on the pillow telling me how
I'm a cold, heartless asshole who doesn't care about the planet,
unicorns, and tiny, tiny babies if I ask for maid service.
Heh, yeah. Last hotel I was in had a doorknob card that you put out if you
wanted maid service. The default was none.
One of the first things I've always done in a hotel room is to hang the
Do Not Disturb sign, where it remains for my entire visit, which is
usually a week or more. Then I suck up to the first maid I see on my
floor and explain that all I'll need is towels now and then and that
I'll come to them when I need 'em. They love that since it's less work
for them and the boss doesn't have to know anything about it. Heck, I
always end up remembering the maids by name while I rarely can say the
same for the managers and concierges and whatnot.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"I'm really glad we're at this place in our relationship where we can
dig up graves together without having to talk." -- Major Lillywhite, iZOMBIE
trotsky
2019-10-12 08:44:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
The guys that turn off your power aren't allowed to turn it back on, even if
they did it by mistake. Probably cuts down on bribery attempts.
Even if it's murder?
Thanks for the article about shampoo bottles. Dear gawd
Plastic that is safely buried in landfill DOES NOT constitute any
adverse consequences for the environment. Given that hotels have maids,
trash really does get properly disposed of. It's not the type of thing
that gets flung out an automobile window.
Hotels actually like this shit. They're using 'climate change' as an
excuse to cut amenities while still charging the same rate and you can't
complain because it's 'for the planet'.
Every hotel I stay in now always has a card on the pillow telling me how
I'm a cold, heartless asshole who doesn't care about the planet,
unicorns, and tiny, tiny babies if I ask for maid service.
They did their homework!
BTR1701
2019-10-10 23:11:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.
Local news is running stories on people with diabetes whose insulin needs
to be refrigerated. The medicine-- which is expensive-- will spoil, they
won't have any to take, and they can't afford to start paying double for
their medication every time it gets windy.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles.
Apparently those hotel shampoos are the next skirmish on the front lines of
the 'climate change' war.

Hotels that give a guest a little shampoo bottle will be fined $2000 for a
first offense and $50,000 for the second offense. I think the hotel manager
is flayed alive for the third offense.
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 01:40:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.
Local news is running stories on people with diabetes whose insulin needs
to be refrigerated. The medicine-- which is expensive-- will spoil, they
won't have any to take, and they can't afford to start paying double for
their medication every time it gets windy.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles.
Apparently those hotel shampoos are the next skirmish on the front lines of
the 'climate change' war.
Hotels that give a guest a little shampoo bottle will be fined $2000 for a
first offense and $50,000 for the second offense. I think the hotel manager
is flayed alive for the third offense.
So give 'em big shampoo bottles. Lots more waste, lots more plastic. When
each guest leaves, maid service pours 18 ounces of shampoo down the toilet.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-10-11 03:43:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.
Local news is running stories on people with diabetes whose insulin needs
to be refrigerated. The medicine-- which is expensive-- will spoil, they
won't have any to take, and they can't afford to start paying double for
their medication every time it gets windy.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles.
Apparently those hotel shampoos are the next skirmish on the front lines of
the 'climate change' war.
Hotels that give a guest a little shampoo bottle will be fined $2000 for a
first offense and $50,000 for the second offense. I think the hotel manager
is flayed alive for the third offense.
So give 'em big shampoo bottles. Lots more waste, lots more plastic. When
each guest leaves, maid service pours 18 ounces of shampoo down the toilet.
LOL. Like they're going to do that! They just refill the bottles from
the 55 gallon drums in storage. :P
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
anim8rfsk
2019-10-11 06:00:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.
Local news is running stories on people with diabetes whose insulin needs
to be refrigerated. The medicine-- which is expensive-- will spoil, they
won't have any to take, and they can't afford to start paying double for
their medication every time it gets windy.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles.
Apparently those hotel shampoos are the next skirmish on the front lines of
the 'climate change' war.
Hotels that give a guest a little shampoo bottle will be fined $2000 for a
first offense and $50,000 for the second offense. I think the hotel manager
is flayed alive for the third offense.
So give 'em big shampoo bottles. Lots more waste, lots more plastic. When
each guest leaves, maid service pours 18 ounces of shampoo down the toilet.
LOL. Like they're going to do that! They just refill the bottles from
the 55 gallon drums in storage. :P
I think the health authorities might object to that.
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Dimensional Traveler
2019-10-11 06:51:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.
Local news is running stories on people with diabetes whose insulin needs
to be refrigerated. The medicine-- which is expensive-- will spoil, they
won't have any to take, and they can't afford to start paying double for
their medication every time it gets windy.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles.
Apparently those hotel shampoos are the next skirmish on the front lines of
the 'climate change' war.
Hotels that give a guest a little shampoo bottle will be fined $2000 for a
first offense and $50,000 for the second offense. I think the hotel manager
is flayed alive for the third offense.
So give 'em big shampoo bottles. Lots more waste, lots more plastic. When
each guest leaves, maid service pours 18 ounces of shampoo down the toilet.
LOL. Like they're going to do that! They just refill the bottles from
the 55 gallon drums in storage. :P
I think the health authorities might object to that.
Like they object to the hotels melting down all those barely used soap
bars to make new soap bars?
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
trotsky
2019-10-11 10:31:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror. . . .
Un Fucking Believable
I remember a news story years ago about an electrical worker sent to
turn off the power at the home of a delinquent ratepayer in northwest
Indiana. Instead, he went next door to shut off power to someone with
home care in which he was artificially respirated or something, with
medical equipment running full time. His electrical meter had special
tags saying medical equipment, do not disconnect.
The worker knew immediately that he'd made a mistake but left instead of
turning the power back on. The patient died. He should have been
prosecuted for murder, but I don't know what happened.
What about people in thsoe kinds of situations? Electricity isn't a
luxury in specific cases.
Local news is running stories on people with diabetes whose insulin needs
to be refrigerated. The medicine-- which is expensive-- will spoil, they
won't have any to take, and they can't afford to start paying double for
their medication every time it gets windy.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
I haven't heard about tiny shampoo bottles.
Apparently those hotel shampoos are the next skirmish on the front lines of
the 'climate change' war.
Hotels that give a guest a little shampoo bottle will be fined $2000 for a
first offense and $50,000 for the second offense. I think the hotel manager
is flayed alive for the third offense.
Well played, Mr. Felcher!
trotsky
2019-10-11 10:32:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Adam H. Kerman
BTR1701
Meanwhile, while this utter disaster is going on across the state,
Governor Clowndick is spending his time signing a bill to make it
illegal to sell a DMV appointment, utterly ignoring the irony that
they've let things get so bad at the DMVs that there's actually now
a black market for appointment times.
I don't even... I thought for sure you were bullshitting but it's true,
California is truly a madhouse.
https://i.postimg.cc/W16STbTz/what-the-fuck-am-i-reading.jpg
https://media.giphy.com/media/YrrXqnOQVBjIA/giphy.gif
1 million-plus NoCal citizens have been without power since 2AM because
California "thinks" winds are coming. There's been no wind yet. Could
last days. This is the most asinine, poorly-run embarrassment of a state
I've ever seen. I can't wait to see it in my rearview mirror.
Imagine paying the highest taxes in the nation, constantly hearing your
state and local officials brag about California being the "5th largest
economy in the world" and then being told "Sorry guys, we gotta live
like it's 1850 without power for a week or so every time the wind blows
because we suck at infrastructure and management. Whoops!"
And they also want to limit us all to electric cars by 2030. I guess
when it's windy we won't be able to drive anymore, either. And all we'll
get is the same collective shrug from the dipshits in charge that we're
getting now and the morons who vote here will keep reelecting them
because they're 'woke' or some such idiocy.
But hey, it's a good thing we got that drinking straw problem under
control and they tackled those little hotel shampoo bottles. You know,
the things that really matter.
Progressivism!
Is that what you're calling your felching these days Mr. Felcher?
Dimensional Traveler
2019-10-10 00:08:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
Any fines just get passed on to the customers in rate hikes.
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Rhino
2019-10-11 13:39:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
It's the lack of ongoing maintenance and refusal to believe that as part
of rsponsible operation of a utility, decades-old facilities are subject
to the need for planned obsolecence. It all needs replacement.
You keep looking at this as a one-time fix but it's not. Above ground or
underground, utilities need ongoing inspection and maintenance and
realistic planned obsolesence. The state of California never required
PG&E to do any of this.
There are numerous problems here. Society has been subsidizing heavily
the lives of these people. They should be charged directly for costs and
maintenance of these service lines in their subdivisions and trunk lines
specific to their communities, not to ratepayers statewide, although
spread costs out over time. If they pay higher rates, at least they get
to see the new infrastructure.
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
Post by shawn
Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
It might be easy for PG&E but it's NOT easy for their customers who,
presumably, have no alternative electricity suppliers. I've seen people
from the area remarking that they have major issues because they have
medication that has to be kept refrigerated and they're not sure how
they are going to do that. If they're going to go somewhere else for the
duration of the outage, they don't dare leaving it to the last minute
either unless their gas tanks are fully fueled because it can be a long
drive to an alternate place and gas pumps need electricity to work. Etc.
etc.
--
Rhino
Jim G.
2019-10-12 21:09:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhino
Post by shawn
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 19:36:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by shawn
I was with you to this point. As I recall the problems weren't with
power being provided to houses, but with the high power transmission
lines. That's something that they are likely to need even if no one
lived in that area.
Fair enough. In my area, we get separate charges for power, itself, and
distribution. They are pretending that the utility, Commonwealth Edison,
no longer owns the generating plants, even though it's all sister
companies. I believe the power charge includes maintenance and
operation of high tension lines, whereas distribution is the trunk lines
to specific areas, and the neighborhood feeders, up to the drop to one's
home. I assume it's similar in California?
I thought one of the fires was sparked by a failed trunk line or
neighborhood distributor line. Regardless, infrastructure like that needs
ongoing replacement (before it sparks the next fire), so charge that to
specific ratepayers affected over time. Normally, I wouldn't suggest that,
but PG&E has such a tremendous backlog of such projects that there's
no way to trust them. With specific charges associated with specific
replacements, maybe they'll actually do it.
One would think that with fines that potentially put the company at
risk that would be enough of an incentive to try and be proactive
before more fires start. Though if they can simply avoid the problem
by shutting off power to the area during high risk periods without
getting hit by the government then they've got an easy out.
It might be easy for PG&E but it's NOT easy for their customers who,
presumably, have no alternative electricity suppliers. I've seen people
from the area remarking that they have major issues because they have
medication that has to be kept refrigerated and they're not sure how
they are going to do that. If they're going to go somewhere else for the
duration of the outage, they don't dare leaving it to the last minute
either unless their gas tanks are fully fueled because it can be a long
drive to an alternate place and gas pumps need electricity to work. Etc.
etc.
I've been reading about people getting gas generators to charge their
electric cars. That's all kinds of awesome.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"I'm really glad we're at this place in our relationship where we can
dig up graves together without having to talk." -- Major Lillywhite, iZOMBIE
BTR1701
2019-10-09 05:42:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jim G.
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better
in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Putting them underground might upset a subterranean colony of endangered
mud slugs and put undue stress on their breeding season. And the last
thing that you want is a bunch of angry, horny mud slugs.
Fair cop.
t***@gmail.com
2019-10-09 03:59:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Ain't nothing worse than mowing your lawn only to discover the hard way that ground water has leached into the underground high tension wire carrying 700,000 volts and electrified your yard.

Course if you are using an electric mower, you wouldn't need an extension cord.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2005/07/why-are-power-lines-so-dangerous.html







Eventually, everything gets buried underground, LOL
BTR1701
2019-10-09 05:41:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Ain't nothing worse than mowing your lawn only to discover the hard way that
ground water has leached into the underground high tension wire carrying
700,000 volts and electrified your yard.
We're not talking about people's yards, we're talking about remote
forests and mountainous regions where these fires start.

Besides, California is always in a state of near drought, which is why
this is a problem in the first place. Not a lot of ground water near the
surface at all, let alone leaching into utility lines.

And who puts a 700,000 volt line under a residential yard in the first
place? That sort of thing is limited to public utility rights-of-way.
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 17:28:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Ain't nothing worse than mowing your lawn only to discover the hard way that
ground water has leached into the underground high tension wire carrying
700,000 volts and electrified your yard.
We're not talking about people's yards, we're talking about remote
forests and mountainous regions where these fires start.
Besides, California is always in a state of near drought, which is why
this is a problem in the first place. Not a lot of ground water near the
surface at all, let alone leaching into utility lines.
And who puts a 700,000 volt line under a residential yard in the first
place? That sort of thing is limited to public utility rights-of-way.
We're not talking about high-tension lines. We're talking about
neighborhood service lines and trunk lines to specific communities that
needed replacement 40 years ago but PG&E never got around to it. We're
not talking about high-tension lines, which are for long-distance
electrical transmission. Those they tend to inspect on an ongoing basis.

None of these lines are in people's yards. There may be a utility
easement at the back of the yard, either buried or above ground, so the
homeowner knows exactly where it is. The important trunk lines, and some
of the neighborhood service lines, are in highway and road rights of way.

What, mime has never seen a utility pole?

BTR1701 is absolutely correct: high-tension lines are in their own
rights of way, never in people's yards.
BTR1701
2019-10-09 17:55:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Ain't nothing worse than mowing your lawn only to discover the hard way that
ground water has leached into the underground high tension wire carrying
700,000 volts and electrified your yard.
We're not talking about people's yards, we're talking about remote
forests and mountainous regions where these fires start.
Besides, California is always in a state of near drought, which is why
this is a problem in the first place. Not a lot of ground water near the
surface at all, let alone leaching into utility lines.
And who puts a 700,000 volt line under a residential yard in the first
place? That sort of thing is limited to public utility rights-of-way.
We're not talking about high-tension lines.
Well, you may not be, but mime clearly was.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
We're talking about
neighborhood service lines and trunk lines to specific communities that
needed replacement 40 years ago but PG&E never got around to it. We're
not talking about high-tension lines, which are for long-distance
electrical transmission. Those they tend to inspect on an ongoing basis.
None of these lines are in people's yards. There may be a utility
easement at the back of the yard, either buried or above ground, so the
homeowner knows exactly where it is. The important trunk lines, and some
of the neighborhood service lines, are in highway and road rights of way.
What, mime has never seen a utility pole?
BTR1701 is absolutely correct: high-tension lines are in their own
rights of way, never in people's yards.
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 17:57:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Ain't nothing worse than mowing your lawn only to discover the hard way that
ground water has leached into the underground high tension wire carrying
700,000 volts and electrified your yard.
We're not talking about people's yards, we're talking about remote
forests and mountainous regions where these fires start.
Besides, California is always in a state of near drought, which is why
this is a problem in the first place. Not a lot of ground water near the
surface at all, let alone leaching into utility lines.
And who puts a 700,000 volt line under a residential yard in the first
place? That sort of thing is limited to public utility rights-of-way.
We're not talking about high-tension lines.
Well, you may not be, but mime clearly was.
mime claimed that underground high tension lines cross would cross someone's
property.

I was agreeing with you that mime is an idiot for making that
claim. Yes, I know that goes without saying.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
We're talking about
neighborhood service lines and trunk lines to specific communities that
needed replacement 40 years ago but PG&E never got around to it. We're
not talking about high-tension lines, which are for long-distance
electrical transmission. Those they tend to inspect on an ongoing basis.
None of these lines are in people's yards. There may be a utility
easement at the back of the yard, either buried or above ground, so the
homeowner knows exactly where it is. The important trunk lines, and some
of the neighborhood service lines, are in highway and road rights of way.
What, mime has never seen a utility pole?
BTR1701 is absolutely correct: high-tension lines are in their own
rights of way, never in people's yards.
shawn
2019-10-09 19:13:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 17:28:42 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric
Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000
of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Ain't nothing worse than mowing your lawn only to discover the hard way that
ground water has leached into the underground high tension wire carrying
700,000 volts and electrified your yard.
We're not talking about people's yards, we're talking about remote
forests and mountainous regions where these fires start.
Besides, California is always in a state of near drought, which is why
this is a problem in the first place. Not a lot of ground water near the
surface at all, let alone leaching into utility lines.
And who puts a 700,000 volt line under a residential yard in the first
place? That sort of thing is limited to public utility rights-of-way.
We're not talking about high-tension lines. We're talking about
neighborhood service lines and trunk lines to specific communities that
needed replacement 40 years ago but PG&E never got around to it. We're
not talking about high-tension lines, which are for long-distance
electrical transmission. Those they tend to inspect on an ongoing basis.
Really? I had thought the fires were mostly caused by the high tension
lines and not local power lines.
The Horny Goat
2019-10-11 16:43:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
And who puts a 700,000 volt line under a residential yard in the first
place? That sort of thing is limited to public utility rights-of-way.
We have one near us that goes over a church parking lot and within 30
ft of several houses in a wooded area. The lines are much higher than
the trees but what goes up comes down.....
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-11 18:06:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by BTR1701
And who puts a 700,000 volt line under a residential yard in the first
place? That sort of thing is limited to public utility rights-of-way.
We have one near us that goes over a church parking lot and within 30
ft of several houses in a wooded area. The lines are much higher than
the trees but what goes up comes down.....
It's more likely that the parking lot is an easement in the utility
r-o-w, not the other way around.
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 04:53:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Underground utilities are back hoe magnets. Also, the way PG&E maintains
transmission lines, you'd have the very serious problem of stray voltage
which is much more serious with underground than above ground utilities.

Underground may not survive wildfires anyway. Maybe.

Maintenance is a hell of a lot easier with above ground. With
underground, out of sight, out of mind would really play into PG&E's
policy of inspecting nothing, assume it's got another 20 years' life.

Ratepayers simply need to pay higher bills for ongoing infrastructure
maintenance, and the state regulators need to audit that infrastructure
is actually being replaced.
BTR1701
2019-10-09 05:36:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet
to prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and
Electric Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about
800,000 of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Underground utilities are back hoe magnets.
Not up in the mountain wilderness, they're not, which is where these
fires mostly start.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Underground may not survive wildfires anyway.
But they would almost never start them.

In any event, turning off the electricity to half the state for 1/4 of
the year isn't a solution.
Adam H. Kerman
2019-10-09 16:47:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California's largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet
to prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and
Electric Co. will cut power starting just after midnight to about
800,000 of its customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure
better in the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
Underground utilities are back hoe magnets.
Not up in the mountain wilderness, they're not, which is where these
fires mostly start.
You're hysterical.

In the history of building construction, there has never been any
example of the operator of digging equipment who has actually read the
maps of underground utilities and avoided them.

Doesn't matter that the utilities have properly complied with locating
services. The equipment operators and their bosses never review the
maps. It's always a surprise.

I wonder: The soils are terribly unstable in a lot of these areas. Are
line poles dug deeper? Would underground utilities have to be located a
lot deeper than in areas with stable soils? It may not always be
practical.
Post by BTR1701
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Underground may not survive wildfires anyway.
But they would almost never start them.
Ha ha

Neglected underground utilities can overheat or contribute to a power
surge in equipment that cannot be buried. We're talking about PG&E.
There's no such thing as ongoing maintenance.
Post by BTR1701
In any event, turning off the electricity to half the state for 1/4 of
the year isn't a solution.
I agree. But I'd rather that these fuckheads stop living in places like
these that they shouldn't. That's got to be Step 1. Are they still
talking about rebuiliding Paradise?

Step 2: California ratepayers acknowledge that maybe after utilities
have been in place for 120 years or so, they've exceeded their useful
life and it's replacement time.
David Johnston
2019-10-09 05:35:22 UTC
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Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do. Cutting the
power off to hundreds of thousands of people every time the wind blows
isn't a solution anywhere but loony California.
The thought occurs to me that above ground would be easier to fix after
a quake.
trotsky
2019-10-09 07:10:34 UTC
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Post by BTR1701
Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
They should put the wires underground, is what they should do.
What's the price tag for that?
Pete
2019-10-09 07:03:57 UTC
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Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
Post by Pete
California’s largest utility is taking its most extreme step yet to
prevent another wildfire on Wednesday, when Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
will cut power starting just after midnight to about 800,000 of its
customers throughout its service area.
Yep -- I guess California is now officially third-world...
We're told power could possibly be off for five days!
(According to the published map we ourselves should escape
the cut, but up in the Berkeley Hills...)
-- Pete --
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
What annoys me (being likely in the middle of it) is the incompetence.
They've been saying for months that they might (probably would) have
to do this, but when it comes to it they obviously forgot to plan...

They set up a website to give people information on where the cuts
would be, but they dien't apparently think that masses of people
would actually want to access it, so it crashed this morning and
has been down all day!

And they suddenly realized that the Caldecott Tunnel between the
East Bay and the other side of the hills would have to be closed
if power went, so they're scambling to install some generators...

Well, it's now midnight, so I guess the power is going out north of here.

-- Pete --
The Horny Goat
2019-10-11 16:39:53 UTC
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Post by anim8rfsk
Post by Rhino
How exactly does cutting power prevent forest fires?
I'm assuming wind doesn't knock down live wires causing sparks.
Which makes it sound like they should maintain their infrastructure better in
the first place.
How does one prevent a powerful windstorm from felling trees onto
power lines?

Short of clear cutting the area within 100 yds of the wires how can
you prevent this in all eventualities? Because rest assured that if
you attempt to cut such a wide swath you WILL be accused of 'raping
the countryside'.

So damned if you do damned if you don't.
Ed Stasiak
2019-10-09 13:15:18 UTC
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Post by t***@gmail.com
the mass outage intended to stop PG&E power lines from starting
wildfires when fast, dry winds blow
This is fucking retarded. California is essentially always in a drought
condition and of course the wind blows all the time.
RichA
2019-10-11 03:22:14 UTC
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Back to the STONE AGE, leftists!
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